Macinstosh SE 6400

[highlandcattle]

I have a SE with a borked mobo and a 6400 with half a tower. I would love to combine the two but could use some pointers.

How do I connect the motherboard to the SE monitor for example.

Tips and tricks are welcome!

 

[Bunsen]

Fate helps those who help themselves.

 

[highlandcattle]

Already did that even with google not much help.But thanks for your insightfull tip!

 

[Bunsen]

Heh, sorry, bad mood last night

Here's something more helpful: (NB, 6360 and 6400 motherboards are interchangeable)

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12737

 

[Bunsen]

This is the most relevant bit:

I've completed the most difficult portion of the hack! / install a 6360/6500 MoBo / in an actual Classic . . .
This pic shows how I've joined the inverted 6500 MoBo slide/mounting plate to what little remains of the Classic Chassis.

This shot shows just how close a margin there is for doing the Compact Mac Shortbed Takky Hack!

and here's a closeup, notice the contorted bending necessary to retain the original equipment Medusa Cable Harness mounting slots...

If I were to do this hack without the Cellar Expansion Bay, I'd make sure to shore up those heavily rework hardened slot arms so the 6360/6500/1 slot riser MoBo could be slid in-n-out with impunity.

 

[Bunsen]

More pics:

IMO, if you use the low-profile single PCI right angle riser from a 54/5500 (or indeed, no PCI riser or cards), you should be able to fit it in there without doing Trash80's more complex "sub-basement" hack (ie, the hard drive case bolted to the bottom).

 

[Bunsen]

How do I connect the motherboard to the SE monitor for example.

Ah ... well, that's a whole different kettle of potatoes. Short answer? You don't. You find an 8" - 9" 4:3 VGA (or better) CRT (or LCD) that fits in the shell and work with that.

Long answer? It *might* just be possible, but I'm afraid I'll have to redirect your attention to Messrs Search and Google. It'll take a reasonable amount of research, and hackery, and I don't at this moment understand it well enough to give you a definite yea or nay.

If the 6400 is capable of outputting 512 x 384 ... that would be a promising start.

 

[highlandcattle]

Thanks,

I do want the original case to be intact i'll modify the mother board.Good tip about the resolution! I'll check that first.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I'd be more interested in seeing if the original CRT could be pushed to do Grayscale along the lines of the SE/30 hacks (poor man's grayscale?) from the 6400's output and the equivalent of the Enhance "Liberty" adapter, which does have a setting for 512 x 384.

I don't recall the Q630-P6500 series ever having any problem the lower screen resolution settings on my favorite adapters, support for higher and higher resolutions and color depths became available as the series progressed.

Interesting project, I'm glad to see B making up for his sharp retort, his motto is: search, search, search, which is great advice, as many of the hack questions that come up have akready been addressed here in the past . . .

. . . pointing out a couple of terms or a link to start your search in his reply would have been nice . . .

. . . but, now I don't have to dredge up, and repackage, my overly complex version of your hack. } [] ]'>

Using a tiny ATX PSU underneath the MoBo to power it, along with the analog board for the CRT within the confines of a stock SE case makes for an interesting hack. I'm not home for a few days, but I'll check some of the parameters in a few days.

1) You might need to angle the MoBo down a bit toward the SE's I/O ports if you're dead set against changes to your SE's case.

2) The width of the 6400 Mobo may be problematic, in terms of retaining the SE's original Analog Board to power the CRT.

3) I can't see a huge problem in adapting the 6400's video output to drive the 9" CRT and the cable connector is very handy.

. . . but I've been known to underestimate technical complexities. :

Very interesting, in fact, I've recently pulled my project off the shelf in order to take a break from the SuperIIsi nonsense for a bit!

 

[Scott Baret]

I know for a fact the 6400 can output at 512 x 384, as I once connected one to a 12" RGB (aka LC Monitor). However, the CRT of the compact Macs has a resolution of 512 x 342.

I feel your best bet would be to find a small CRT to transplant. I seem to remember a thread from some time ago about tiny CRT monitors, so I'm going to follow Bunsen's example and recommend a search or two for that.

 

[Bunsen]

the 6400 can output at 512 x 384 / However, the CRT of the compact Macs has a resolution of 512 x 342.

Quite so, my bad.

Technically, the Cathode Ray Tube itself has no specific resolution. It's the analog board and driver circuitry that sets it. In *theory* you could drive the tube at near any resolution - if you're up for designing and building your own high-voltage, high-frequency, precisely tuned electromagnetic tube driver...

Part of the reason I advised - and still advise - extensive searching and reading, is that this is *not even remotely* a simple plug-A-into-B hack. It's not something I would recommend unless you know what you're getting yourself into (I mentioned the high voltage, right?) - and not knowing the relevant search terms to bring up what you're looking for is not a promising start.

For example, no-one's even mentioned refresh rates, sync rates, or video and sync signal polarity yet. Sync is your biggest issue, IMO.

I would suggest starting with the comments I left on the very first, stickied, post ("What this forum is about") in the resurrected Hacks forum, where I dropped in a list of useful existing threads. Also, search term: eviltim

I'd be more interested in seeing if the original CRT could be pushed to do Grayscale along the lines of the SE/30 hacks (poor man's grayscale?)

Oy vey. The original attempt at the PMGS involved transplanting the analog board and deflection coils from another monitor onto the SE's tube. Even he ended up using a complete substitute monitor in the end.

It's back up, btw, as part of the resurrected Power Color Classic pages.

Sync and rez aside (*snerk*), it's possible to get grays from a mono monitor by hijacking the brightness knob's PCB points - as eviltim/viletim demonstrated on one of his RGB monitor hacks.

Space wise, an LCD would free up a metric shed-load...

 

[Bunsen]

Shorter: it proooobably maybe could be done, but it's an engineering challenge, not a mere hack. One would really need to know what one is doing.

 

[highlandcattle]

I'm guesssing this will outside of my league I was hoping to simply connect the motherboard to the internal motherboard and then desoldering the ports and add wires so they could match up with the SE ports.

 

[Bunsen]

Be not downheartened, comrade! Back-shelf it for a while, keep on reading, searching, pondering. I've got hack ideas going back five-ten years that I'm just *now* getting a handle on how to attack. Consider other projects for your parts, too. Keep an open mind.

Cheap 9" VGA CRTs are not wholly unobtainium, and brand new LCDs start around $100. Video aside, the rest is just jamming it all in there somewhere.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I was hoping to simply connect the motherboard to the internal motherboard and then desoldering the ports and add wires so they could match up with the SE ports.

To keep the hack within the realm of possibility:

00) do your mod in reversible, if somewhat over the top, steps

01) make your wires long enough to slide the Shell back about 6-12"

02) mount all your extra ports through the SE's Expansion Slot Opening and an extra battery cover

03) definitely use a single slot riser for a USB/Firewire Card

04) mount the PSU (6360 or ATXhack) vertically on the back of the shell & rewire the AC to the original SE Connector

05) hack the shell so it slides back said 6" without much effort

06) use an external monitor at 640x480 for Tuner Card Output set up right next to the SE/6400

07) add a shallow MacQuarium with a single Siamese Fighting Fish to replace the CRT for the nonce

08) slide shell back to feed your fish and lift the tank out for maintenance.

09) mount your filter, aeration device next to the PSU on the back wall

10) fab a catch-basin to surround ALL the MacQuarium parts in case of leakage

10) mount a tiny WebCam w/closeup lens to the backside of the "catchbasin"

11) feed the output of the WebCAM to the Video Card

12) output the rear view image of the MacQuarium's Siamese Denizen to "spanned" monitor

13) along with the face of anybody staring into the SE/6400!

In doing so, you'll have a fully functional SE/6400/MacQuarium with modern I/O, FDD and (second) Monitor! [] ]'>

You'll not have modified ANY of the SE's external parts and your CRT/Analog Board will be safely stored away until you source a GrayScale CRT or LCD! You'll have lots of time to consider options while having done a really cool hack already . . .

. . . one which may satisfy you in itself! }

p.s. hacking your wiring to an EdgeCard Connector/Slot PCB set for your wiring harness makes things MUCH easier & gains bonus points!

edit: Now I'm tempted to do this friggin' WhackHack! :

 

[Bunsen]

To keep the hack within the realm of possibility:

00, 01, 03, 05 good advice or suggestion

02, 04 that's one way of doing it, sure ...

05 o...kay

06) use an external monitor at 640x480 for Tuner Card Output

Don't confuse things, please, jt.

The TV card's output is S-Video or composite, and any old TV will do fine for that. There's only one monitor output on a 6400, barring a PCI video card.

07) Fish

... oy. Forget I said anything ..

Now I'm tempted to do this friggin' WhackHack! :

yeah ... You do that. Meanwhile, let's try and keep things here a tad simpler, mkay?

 

[Bunsen]

I do like the *general* idea, which I would sum up as:

Don't worry about the video hacking for now. Just use an external monitor.

Pull the analog board and CRT, store safely, use the space in the case for ... whatever. Or not.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

06) use an external monitor at 640x480 for Tuner Card Output

Don't confuse things, please, jt.

That's the simple part, the Video Card's Output is pixel doubled 320 x 240 to the Computer's Monitor.

The TV card's -out-put is S-Video or composite, and any old TV will do fine for that. There's only one -monitor- out on a 6400, barring a PCI video card.

Correction, those would be the Inputs.

07) Fish

... oy. Forget I said anything ..

The suggestion of an SE/6400/MacQuarium is a bit over the top, but it makes for a great display piece that's actually useful until the necessary CRT or LCD is sourced and the MacQuarium could be dialed back to a MacTerrarium hack to keep things simple.

Now I'm tempted to do this friggin' WhackHack! :

yeah ... You do that. Meanwhile, let's try and keep things here a tad simpler, mkay?

mkay

edit: I see we're posting simultaneously again . . . and on opposite sides of the same page again! [] ]'>

 

[Bunsen]

The page I'm on is this:

highlandcattle has already said he feels this is out of his depth, so I'm looking for ways to make this simpler - both the hack and the explanations. Skipping the video hacking is a good idea in that regard. Fishtank, not so much.