Mac G4 Cube graphic card options

[indibil]

Hi, a friend of mine has a nearly stock G4 Cube, and he wanted to do some upgrades. He still has the original VRM.

One of the upgrades is replacing the graphics card. It must be able to run OS9, so we have two options: an ATI Rage 9000 Pro 64MB and a PC flashed PC Radeon 9250L 64MB. We assume the 9000 will be better performance than the 9250L, but in terms of power consumption, is there much of a difference?



He's also planning to replace the processor with a Sonnet Encore ST 800, and we also don't know if the original VRM will be sufficient for both upgrades, as well as an SSD.

Which of the two graphics cards do you recommend?

Thanks.

 

[lobust]

The graphics card in a cube is in a really confined space and does not get good air flow so it gets real toasty, you need to keep that in mind.

My cube has a 1.2GHz Encore which actually runs quite cool and quiet with it's little 80mm fan, and I settled on a Radeon 7000 for the graphics card because it was a reasonable compromise of (contemporary) performance and heat. I had a stock Apple GeForce 2 in there for a while and it ran really hot. I have a Radeon 9000 but decided against trying it in there as it felt like pushing my luck with heat.

This is with an Artmix VRM, which I actually ordered before I even received the Cube, based on the horror stories I'd read of stock VRM failures...

 

[François]

You’ll need a low profile card or it won’t fit, the VRM is in the way. The second one on your photo will definitely not fit. If you don’t mind less powerful cards, a Radeon 7500, or a (flashed) GeForce 6200 are good options.

 

[indibil]

Thanks for your answers. I have a 6200, but it's out of the question because it doesn't have drivers for OS9.

I also have a Radeon 7500, which I thought was the same size as the 9000. I'll have to check it out. I'll have to look it up, but I seem to remember that the Radeon 9000Pro was often used for Cube upgrades.

So the power consumption of a Radeon 9250L is higher than a Radeon 7500? I'm asking because the 9250L is more modern, should consume less, and is the L version.

I saw a post explaining how to upgrade the stock VRM; perhaps that would also be an alternative.

 

[lobust]

I also have a Radeon 7500

I need to correct my previous post, it is in fact a 7500 in my cube, not a 7000...

 

[indibil]

I've already 3D printed the front end for the Radeon 7500 and the low-profile Radeon 9250. You've told me that the 9000 doesn't fit without moving the VRM, and that's true, and that the 7500 is a very common option, but no one has rated the low-profile 9250, for which I have drivers for OS9.



In theory, the Radeon 7500, based on the R100 architecture, is older and supports OpenGL 1.3 games. The Radeon 9250 SE, based on the Radeon 9200 (which is an R200 derivative), is built on a newer architecture and supports OpenGL 1.4. But under OS9, I don't know if OpenGL 1.3 or 1.4 is better. I assume the Radeon 9250 will support OpenGL 1.3 as well; it simply extends support to 1.4.

 

[herd]

There is still a lot of good info in archives of cubeowner.com

 

[Byrd]

The Radeon 7500 "Mac edition" was a tried and true upgrade for G4 Cubes for years, certainly wasn't much better than the stock Rage 128 for gaming but made OS X a lot snappier.

If your PC flashed 9250 works well, I'd go for it but it will be similar in performance to the older Radeon cards. PC flashed Geforce 2 MX another good choice. Any kind of upgrade in a Cube will need a fan, either a slimline 80mm or a slimline GPU fan would suit.

 

[indibil]

The Radeon 7500 "Mac edition" was a tried and true upgrade for G4 Cubes for years, certainly wasn't much better than the stock Rage 128 for gaming but made OS X a lot snappier.

If your PC flashed 9250 works well, I'd go for it but it will be similar in performance to the older Radeon cards. PC flashed Geforce 2 MX another good choice. Any kind of upgrade in a Cube will need a fan, either a slimline 80mm or a slimline GPU fan would suit.

Thanks for the reply.

I also have a GeForce 2 Mac, although I thought either the Radeon 7500 or the Radeon 9250 were better options. I tested the 9250 on a G4 Gigabit with the specific drivers for OS9, and it works well. The fact that it's low-profile and the SE version made me think it was cooler. I read that the GeForce 2 and 3 ran hotter.

I have an 80mm, 15mm-thick fan ready to install, as well as an automatic fan speed controller with a temperature sensor.

My friend is considering which options we should choose...

 

[treellama]

The 80 mm fan does not do anything to cool a GPU (or more importantly the VRM) in my experience. The fanless GeForce 2 mx runs way too hot even with an 80 mm base fan. I think you’d need to rig something on the GPU itself with the 9250.

 

[indibil]

Yes, I saw that the fan only moves air through the center. I'll try to make the VRM upgrade mentioned on macrumours; I think it will be necessary.

As for the Radeon 9250, in the photos you'll see that the heatsink is already rotated 90º, as I read in a post. I replaced the thermal pad with a new adhesive one.

 

[kjay]

2nd Herd's suggestion to comb thru Cubeowners archives. At the time, they were pushing the limits of what would a Cube could and could not do. Barefeats is also a great source. That being said, it would help to know how you intend to use the Cube when in OS9? Seems like 3D acceleration is a requirement?

A flashed 6200 is considered by many to be the best all around card, especially when used in OSX. OS9, it works but lacks 3D acceleration. I have 2 Cubes, a Dual 1.6 '47 + 6200 and a Single 1.4 '57 + 7500. Both systems work great and feel very responsive in both OS's.

Concerning the VRM, if you are going down the cpu/agp upgrade path I'd consider upgrading. Failed VRMs are quite often catastrophic to the machine. Both my cubes are currently running off the stock VRM, but the Dual card is the Powerlogix VRM bypass version and both have been swapped to SSDs so the VRMs don't get pushed hard. I do have a Stratos VRM that is out for repair and there is now the Super VRM option that is being made. So you have 2 choices for modern beefed up VRM's.

Nvidia GeForce 6200 AGP

Nvidia GeForce 6200 AGP

lowendmac.com

'Mutant' Graphics Card Upgrades for G4 Cube

real world speed test results for performance minded Macintosh users

barefeats.com

G4 Cube SuperVRM by Cuebus Upgrades on Tindie

An upgraded power module (VRM) for the Power Mac G4 Cube

www.tindie.com

As a side note, to keep the 6200 at a happy temp, I moved away from the stock sink to a small fan based agp cooler.