M0001/w/etc, Keyboard and Mouse Schematic and more info?

[Mars478]

Hows its going, I'd like to know more about the Keyboard and Mouse interface on the M0001 (Mac 128/512k/e/plus/ED) Series of compacts. If you have schematics, and if you have any info about it and how it works. Also what the name is. Thanks!

 

[porter]

Inside Macintosh Volume III has all the schematics for keyboard and mouse interfaces, including how keyboard scan codes work.

There have also been complete PDFs of the original Inside Macintosh I to III floating around the net.

http://www.weihenstephan.org/~michaste/pagetable/mac/Inside_Macintosh.pdf

 

[Mars478]

Also Whats more important to have with these? A mouse or a keyboard? I am trying to track down one of these, and my gut instinct is that the Mouse is more important. I have a low budget after paying the shipping for my 512k. If someone has either one of these cheap (Any condition, working).

 

[porter]

Finding an original keyboard without numeric keypad would be more important! The mice are the same as for all models upto the Mac Plus.

 

[Mars478]

Well I don't mean in collectorability, I mean in functionality! Like do I need a keyboard more than a Mouse? I am going to get either, but for now I need one.

 

[porter]

You need both unless you intend to do all your writing with "KeyCaps" and "Cut & Paste".

That said you can do surprisingly alot with just a mouse.

At least you aren't going to get "No keyboard - press F1 to continue".

 

[Mars478]

Ehh, I am not going to be using it daily, just as a vintage machine. Is this a good deal? And using KeyCaps can add some length to my YouTube videos } ... So It does sound to me like the mouse puts more functionality. Whats the Feasability of making my own mouse? Hahaha

http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-Macintosh-Plus-Serial-Mouse-M0100_W0QQitemZ120463112886QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0c293ab6&_trksid=p4999.c0.m14#ht_500wt_980

 

[porter]

Whats the Feasability of making my own mouse?

Can easily be done. You need the guts of an old mechanical mouse and by-pass any embedded serial microcontroller so that the actual V+H sense wires go to the connector. The mac itself does the movement phase detection and button debouncing.

 

[Mars478]

So how would I go about doing that? I have a (Maybe) Dead ADB Mouse 1, Some Sun Mice, IBM PS/2 Mice.

Any Instructions? Ooohhh I'll be thinking about this during my vacation! I may not need a DB-9 mouse at all!

 

[porter]

So how would I go about doing that? I have a (Maybe) Dead ADB Mouse 1, Some Sun Mice, IBM PS/2 Mice.Any Instructions? Ooohhh I'll be thinking about this during my vacation! I may not need a DB-9 mouse at all!

Get the biggest, clunkiest one you can find so it should be easiest to work with. The Inside Mac document gives you the spec of what it needs to do and connector pinout. Judicious probing with an oscilloscope should tell you where the appropriate signals are within the mouse.

 

[JRL]

Just a note man, if you don't have any prior experience to physical hardware hacking, it wouldn't be a good idea.

Not trying to discourage you, just warning ya.

 

[Bunsen]

making my own mouse?

guts of an old mechanical mouse and by-pass any embedded serial microcontroller so that the actual V+H sense wires go to the connector. The mac itself does the movement phase detection and button debouncing.

That is indeed good news!

 

[porter]

Just a note man, if you don't have any prior experience to physical hardware hacking, it wouldn't be a good idea.

You have to start somewhere! You are more likely to strangle yourself with the mouse cord than electrocute yourself with it.

BTW, don''t take the Mac itself apart. 8-o

 

[Mars478]

OK, Well I don't have an Oscilloscope... Has anyone ever done this? I am not going to take the Mac Apart. Would a Semi-Dead ADB Mouse work? Does anyone have instructions for a particular Mouse?

 

[Mac128]

Just a note man, if you don't have any prior experience to physical hardware hacking, it wouldn't be a good idea.

For 6 bucks, I would buy one off eBay. I cannot imagine you'll be able to build one for less.

As JRL points out, if all of your connections and voltages aren't exact you run the risk of blowing several ICs on the logic board, in which case you have a much more expensive repair problem than buying a $6 mouse. ADB is 100% incompatible with the serial mouse. While the physical mechanism may be interchangeable, the similarity ends there. I would discourage any more work in this direction until you have significantly more experience with electronics as this is all starting to sound suspiciously like a similar Classic repair problem you had, which turned out badly as I recall.

As for your original question, the original Mac was designed to be used almost entirely with a mouse and there are some things you simply cannot do without a mouse. The point was to force people to use the brand-spanking-new-heretofore-unknown-pointing-device, rather than rely on the keyboard, which is why there are no arrow keys or numeric keypads on the 128K & 512K.

 

[Mars478]

Yeah, I am trashing the mouse building idea. I am working out a deal with trag who is selling some New Platinum Plus Mice for 10$(including shipping).

So It seems to me like the mouse is more important. I just need it to explore the machine, I am not going to be typing essays on it. Just for about this mac and stuff.

 

[porter]

ADB is 100% incompatible with the serial mouse.

It's not even a serial mouse, it takes the raw phased output from the opto-electrical motion detectors.

 

[Mac128]

It's not even a serial mouse, it takes the raw phased output from the opto-electrical motion detectors.

Yes, but when distinguishing the two ... which is quicker to type? :beige:

The reason the mouse is often referred to correctly as the "serial" mouse is because it's easier to say and because the mouse output is sent to the Zilog Serial Communications Controller (SCC) for processing. I contrast, the "ADB" mouse sends its data to the ADB interface which in turn sends everything to the VIA and has little to do with the serial interface. This is why the two are ultimately incompatible.

 

[porter]

The reason the mouse is often referred to correctly as the "serial" mouse is because

.. it's a hangover from the IBM PC world which had serial, bus, PS/2 and eventually USB mice.

It''s a non-serial mouse because the phased motion detection and mouse button lines are all wired in parallel and doesn't plug into the serial ports.

Also the pins that the signals go to on the SCC are not the serial data pins, as they go to the modem and printer ports.