Lisa 2/10!

[PB145B]

I finally made it happen, I now own an Apple Lisa! This has been my "holy grail" for many years now. I ended up getting a 2/10 which is the one I always wanted. I love the lack of batteries and the Widget hard drive! And it is probably the most common of the Lisa variants.

Here it is in its current fully-functional state! I got the Lisa last month but just got the keyboard in a few days ago.



I have fully recapped both the power supply and video board to keep it running reliably. This Lisa did have the screen kit with 3A ROMs when I got it, but I have removed that and installed H ROMs so I can run the Lisa Office System.

Here is the wonderful Widget hard drive! Amazingly, after giving the spindle a few gentle turns by hand it came to life and booted right into MacWorks XL! After a few minutes of running the bearings even quieted down nicely. I was truly blown away by that! I absolutely love the way this drive sounds! So unique.



Here's a pic of the "naked" machine without the faceplate. I always loved how the front comes off on the Lisa.



My CRT has surprisingly little burn in as well! I was very happy with that. I've seen many with awful burn-in.

Here's a rear shot as well as some pics of the card cage.



It is just unbelievable how well built and designed this machine is! So thoughtfully put together and high quality. I love it. The ease of service is amazing also.

My machine did come with the dual parallel port card too, so I'd like to get at least one Profile to hook up to it someday!

First thing I did when my keyboard arrived and I rebuilt it was imaged some Lisa Office System 3.1 disks and got it installed! I have waited so long to experience this and I could hardly wait! I was never willing to use an emulator, I wanted my first Lisa Office System experience to be on a real Lisa!



I will say I am extremely impressed with the Office System! It's an amazing operating system. Extremely advanced and intuitive for the day too! I love the document-centric approach as well.

I did like running MacWorks on here too so perhaps I will dual boot it at some point.

Another thing I have always loved about the Lisa is how the keyboard can be tucked neatly under the front.



Definitely one of the better looking computers of all time in my opinion!

So that's my Lisa! This really has been a dream come true. I will most certainly be adding more to this thread later!

 

[cheesestraws]

Congratulations! The 2/10 is probably the most sensible Lisa to have in my opinion as someone who also has a 2/10.

Here is the wonderful Widget hard drive! Amazingly, after giving the spindle a few gentle turns by hand it came to life and booted right into MacWorks XL! After a few minutes of running the bearings even quieted down nicely. I was truly blown away by that! I absolutely love the way this drive sounds! So unique.

Ahh, both of mine were knackered so I gave them away for Science to happen. I'll have to hear someone else's working one day.

It is just unbelievable how well built and designed this machine is! So thoughtfully put together and high quality. I love it. The ease of service is amazing also.

Yeah - once you actually start looking at it and fiddling with it you can really see why it was so expensive, can't you. A beautiful piece of engineering and design. Total overkill for what they were trying to sell it to be used for, but a technical tour de force.

Also plug you should try running GEM on it ;-).

 

[wottle]

Awesome that your Widget still works, but it is likely on borrowed time. I've been really happy with the ESProfile as a simple, cheap, and effective replacement. I have a couple of internal and a couple of externals left over if you need one (the downsides of not owning 10 Lisas is you don't need 10 ESProfiles!).

 

[MOS8_030]

Congrats! Cool score!

 

[PB145B]

Congratulations! The 2/10 is probably the most sensible Lisa to have in my opinion as someone who also has a 2/10.

Thank you! Yes I always preferred the 2/10. They are easier to find, have no battery pack and the internal hard drive is also something I really like.

Ahh, both of mine were knackered so I gave them away for Science to happen. I'll have to hear someone else's working one day.

I do feel quite lucky that mine immediately started working once I got it spinning! It’s such a cool sounding drive with the little squeaky sound it makes when seeking.

Yeah - once you actually start looking at it and fiddling with it you can really see why it was so expensive, can't you. A beautiful piece of engineering and design. Total overkill for what they were trying to sell it to be used for, but a technical tour de force.

Also plug you should try running GEM on it ;-).

Yes, it’s incredible! It definitely makes sense why they were expensive. Was no doubt a costly machine to manufacture!

Oh yes, I would love to try GEM on it one day! I’m familiar with the PC version of GEM and it would be really cool to compare them.

Awesome that your Widget still works, but it is likely on borrowed time. I've been really happy with the ESProfile as a simple, cheap, and effective replacement. I have a couple of internal and a couple of externals left over if you need one (the downsides of not owning 10 Lisas is you don't need 10 ESProfiles!).

I am very happy it works. I mean sure, it could go one more day or one more decade or even more, but I’m definitely going to enjoy it however long it works! And it’s not like anything irreplaceable is going to be stored on it anyhow.

I was looking at the ESProfile awhile back! Looks like a really cool device. Im assuming you have fully assembled and working ones? I might be interested. What would your prices for them be?

Congrats! Cool score!

Thank you!

 

[nathall]

Congratulations. A Lisa/Mac XL has always been on my list too. Like you, I want to run the OS on the real thing and won’t settle for emulation.

 

[PB145B]

Congratulations. A Lisa/Mac XL has always been on my list too. Like you, I want to run the OS on the real thing and won’t settle for emulation.

Thanks! Yes, for me the real hardware is a big part of the experience! Nothing against emulation, but I like having the real deal myself.

 

[bibilit]

Congrats, yes very nice machine, i don't have space for one, and it's also heavy.

 

[luRaichu]

You should try running XENIX on it

 

[bmwcyclist]

Congrats!

 

[olePigeon]

Does anyone else get excited when something as simple as locking latches are different colors?

 

[bmwcyclist]

A couple of comments:
1. GEM, I think it only works on 2/5 not 2/10 Lisas. At least that is what I was told when it did not work on mine
2. VERY good idea to get 1 or 2 ESProfiles. I have one internal with an extension for the SD card to be used outside of the case, and one on my Parallel card, which I see you also have.
3. Another thing I would recommend is a FloppyEMU, if you don't already have one.

I still have some extra 3D printed cases for External ESProfiles if you want one. I only ask for postage $.

 

[PB145B]

Congrats, yes very nice machine, i don't have space for one, and it's also heavy.

Thanks. It’s a big machine but I wouldn’t call it huge. I’m very used to my IBM PCs and stuff and it really doesn’t consume any more desk space than one of those. And yes, VERY heavy. Definitely the heaviest computer I own I think.

You should try running XENIX on it

I would love to try that!

Congrats!

Thank you!

Does anyone else get excited when something as simple as locking latches are different colors?

Yes, absolutely! I really appreciate attention to detail like that.

A couple of comments:
1. GEM, I think it only works on 2/5 not 2/10 Lisas. At least that is what I was told when it did not work on mine
2. VERY good idea to get 1 or 2 ESProfiles. I have one internal with an extension for the SD card to be used outside of the case, and one on my Parallel card, which I see you also have.
3. Another thing I would recommend is a FloppyEMU, if you don't already have one.

I still have some extra 3D printed cases for External ESProfiles if you want one. I only ask for postage $.

Aw that sucks about GEM, but oh well.

Definitely do want to get at least one ESProfile I think. That would make booting different operating systems more convenient too and I can just leave the Widget as my Lisa Office System drive. And it would be a nice option to have just in case the Widget were to fail.

If I end up getting an ESProfile I may get in touch about a case!

Oh and nice Lisa by the way!

 

[bmwcyclist]

If you only get one ESProfile, get an internal (I also have 3D printed shelves for those) because the internal connection is not only faster than the expansion card, it has priority.

It is REALLY nice to have two because you can copy files between volumes.

Another nice addition to your Lisa is a SCSI expansion card and a BlueSCSI unit. I think there are instructions for building your own SCSI card, they are pretty simple, and Vintage Macros might have some.

 

[stepleton]

This is a nice-looking 2/10. Congrats on the working Widget; it is a rarity. I am responsible for carrying out the Widget "science" that @cheesestraws mentioned, and aside from a bit of troubleshooting a few years ago (indicating a problem talking to one of the heads on one of the drives), I have not made a great deal of progress. If there ever is a 68kmla meetup in the UK again, I should bring the Widgets and my electronics kit and set up a Widget lab at one of the tables.

Other notes:

GEM works on a 2/10, as discussed here in 2018. I think I ran it on my own as well, but it's been a while.

I too would recommend getting an ESProFile. It is a lot easier to experiment with different OS environments and other software that way; also, you can make "save points" by copying drive images to backup files. You don't need to worry as much about messing things up.

That said, I would go with whichever model is most convenient and versatile for you. My belief is that relatively little about using a Lisa is I/O-bound: you are generally spending a lot more time waiting on the stock 5MHz processor to think... think... think... its way through everyday Lisa business than you are waiting on data to move on or off of the disk. I am not sure what "has priority" means: is it that the internal connector is the boot default if the Lisa's in-RAM boot-up preferences are lost (as they are when you unplug the Lisa)? If you are in the habit of unplugging your Lisa (as I am --- it's a good idea since the standby power is always on when plugged in), then it is nice not to have to select the internal drive from the STARTUP FROM menu.

ESProFiles are fairly inexpensive, so it's not a big setback to buy several of them. Plus, the ability to read parallel port compatible drives with the device is quite handy.

Note that the Lisa SCSI setup is MacWorks only for now, which may or may not matter to you. With the Lisa OS source code now available and compileable, someone might write a SCSI driver for the Office System someday, but I haven't heard of anyone planning to do that.

I agree that it's nice to have a Floppy Emu.

Finally, unless someone else did it ahead of time, you will likely need to replace the RIFA capacitors in your Lisa's power supply.

 

[bmwcyclist]

Thanks for the link! Perhaps it was the 1mg RAM limitation I was running into. Some of those links don't work, but I got a download of something to try!

 

[cheesestraws]

GEM works on a 2/10, as discussed here in 2018. I think I ran it on my own as well, but it's been a while.

Or they could run my build that works with hard discs and has several of the bugs fixed ;-)

 

[stepleton]

Sorry for forgetting the evolution of this system! Yes, run that version. A memory of something fun during those lockdown months.

 

[PB145B]

If you only get one ESProfile, get an internal (I also have 3D printed shelves for those) because the internal connection is not only faster than the expansion card, it has priority.

It is REALLY nice to have two because you can copy files between volumes.

Another nice addition to your Lisa is a SCSI expansion card and a BlueSCSI unit. I think there are instructions for building your own SCSI card, they are pretty simple, and Vintage Macros might have some.

I will probably end up getting one of each on the ESProfile! SCSI would be a cool option for MacWorks too! I thought they looked pretty simple from the pics I’ve seen so perhaps building one could be doable.

This is a nice-looking 2/10. Congrats on the working Widget; it is a rarity. I am responsible for carrying out the Widget "science" that @cheesestraws mentioned, and aside from a bit of troubleshooting a few years ago (indicating a problem talking to one of the heads on one of the drives), I have not made a great deal of progress. If there ever is a 68kmla meetup in the UK again, I should bring the Widgets and my electronics kit and set up a Widget lab at one of the tables.

Other notes:

GEM works on a 2/10, as discussed here in 2018. I think I ran it on my own as well, but it's been a while.

I too would recommend getting an ESProFile. It is a lot easier to experiment with different OS environments and other software that way; also, you can make "save points" by copying drive images to backup files. You don't need to worry as much about messing things up.

That said, I would go with whichever model is most convenient and versatile for you. My belief is that relatively little about using a Lisa is I/O-bound: you are generally spending a lot more time waiting on the stock 5MHz processor to think... think... think... its way through everyday Lisa business than you are waiting on data to move on or off of the disk. I am not sure what "has priority" means: is it that the internal connector is the boot default if the Lisa's in-RAM boot-up preferences are lost (as they are when you unplug the Lisa)? If you are in the habit of unplugging your Lisa (as I am --- it's a good idea since the standby power is always on when plugged in), then it is nice not to have to select the internal drive from the STARTUP FROM menu.

ESProFiles are fairly inexpensive, so it's not a big setback to buy several of them. Plus, the ability to read parallel port compatible drives with the device is quite handy.

Note that the Lisa SCSI setup is MacWorks only for now, which may or may not matter to you. With the Lisa OS source code now available and compileable, someone might write a SCSI driver for the Office System someday, but I haven't heard of anyone planning to do that.

I agree that it's nice to have a Floppy Emu.

Finally, unless someone else did it ahead of time, you will likely need to replace the RIFA capacitors in your Lisa's power supply.

Thank you! Yes, I’m very grateful that my Widget is working so well.

Great to know GEM can actually run on a 2/10! I’ll definitely have to try it out eventually!

It makes sense that some slight disk speed difference probably isn’t very noticeable on a Lisa. That is the case with most other early, slower machines as well. Yes I do believe the internal connector has first priority on the 2/10, so you have to go into the boot menu and select one of the parallel ports in the expansion card to start from an external drive the first time. I am in the habit of unplugging mine as well! Keeping that standby voltage constantly going in the 41 year old PSU just makes me a bit uncomfortable.

Yeah, I’ll probably pick up a couple of ESProfiles soon hopefully.

I was aware that the SCSI card is MacWorks only, not a huge deal but it would be cool if someone made an Office System driver for it!

A floppy EMU would be cool to have someday, although I do love my 400k Sony drives! And I have plenty of vintage Macs to write disks so it’s not an issue.

My PSU actually doesn’t have RIFAs! It has a different type of safety capacitors (gray ones). I did change all of the electrolytics out though, except for the two big ones which don’t usually go bad anyway.

Or they could run my build that works with hard discs and has several of the bugs fixed ;-)

Oh, very cool! Definitely need to give that a try one day.

 

[wottle]

I was looking at the ESProfile awhile back! Looks like a really cool device. Im assuming you have fully assembled and working ones? I might be interested. What would your prices for them be?

It would just be my cost. I actually have an assembled external one with cable and 3d printed case for ~$24, a bit extra for the cable and connectors. I'd need to pick up another ESP board to put together an internal one, but it would be $20. Let me know if you're interested.

Unless prices have dropped, I paid ~ $13 for the assembled boards, and $6.50 for the ESP32s with ordering in bulk (5 boards), so it would likely be more expensive otherwise build your own.