Just purchased Mac 512k

[JDW]

my H202 treated macs show the same discolored halo around the edges of the serial number sticker where the liquid seaped in at the edges.

Where? I don't see it. (And previously in this thread, you said the serial number on your mouse was "not affected.")

I was not able to fully rid the space bar of its discoloration - as mentioned, the harder plastic does not let go of its yellow color as easily as the rest of the Mac plastics.

Perhaps that is true only because you used extremely low concentrations of H202? I've not read about others using such low concentrations of H202 in other forums, perhaps because those folks found they could only remove all the yellowing with more H202? Or is it that they want the process to move along more quickly and that's why they use more H202 (i.e., "hours" versus "days" in UV light).

 

[lumpydog]

Where? I don't see it. (And previously in this thread, you said the serial number on your mouse was "not affected.")[

Man - you guys are sticklers! Ok - here goes.... The mouse label was NOT affected when I posted that feedback in this thread. I just double checked. I can post pics tomorrow of the mouse label if it would help. I also just checked the serial number of the compact Mac cases and found them to NOT have a halo any more - so my theory is that they dry out (the last time I looked - fairly soon after dunking - they both had a halo...). So that debunks my theory that Dan's eBay Mac was dunked... unless those pics were taken soon after (before the labels dried out). We may never know - unless Dan shares how he gets his Macs looking so spiffy.

Perhaps that is true only because you used extremely low concentrations of H202? I've not read about others using such low concentrations of H202 in other forums, perhaps because those folks found they could only remove all the yellowing with more H202? Or is it that they want the process to move along more quickly and that's why they use more H202 (i.e., "hours" versus "days" in UV light).

In the other forums, I think the plastics they are deyellowing are much harder than them Mac plastics - that's the best way I can describe it... It's only a theory. I have had more than satisfactory results at 3% or less solution in 6 or less hours out in the sun - with one exception, my space bar. I've put the space bar in every batch of solution I've made (I think 4 at this point) - each batch being out for about 6 hours - the space bar has lost more yellow each time, but not all of it.

To be honest, some of the pictures in the other forums scare me a little - the 30%+ concentration of H202 appears to attack the plastic and anything else that is subjected to it. You can see evidence of white blooming and uneven lightening of the plastic. With my Macs and the relatively lesser concentration of H202, I've seen excellent results.

I think you have to wonder what the long term effects are on the plastic - but from what I've seen, this is really safe. I'm itching for someone else to give this a try here so they can see how well this really works.

 

[JDW]

Thank you for the details, Lumpy. Sticklers like me certainly appreciate it.

Well, I am now considering all my options. I live in a very safe yet unfriendly country here in Japan. H202 is treated like hardcore drugs. Even the drug store stuff is way overpriced. So I am thinking about making a gel to reduce my costs (and wasted liquid). But now I need to purchase even more hard to find ingredients! Ack!

My first try will be on my IIgs keyboard. The space bar in particular needs de-yellowing.

Thank you for all the details to date. You're my hero, Lumpy!

 

[Mac128]

I should have mentioned that my comment on Dan's eBay auction was only speculation - primarily because that is one seriously clean Mac! ... You'll notice in my pictures that I was not able to fully rid the space bar of its discoloration - as mentioned, the harder plastic does not let go of its yellow color as easily as the rest of the Mac plastics.

I think danapplemacman is not restoring his cases beyond rubbing some household cleaner on them. Take a look at these 2nd gen mouse, original mouse and keyboard auctions. There's quite a variation of yellowing going on and all the spacebars suffer from jaundice (the mouse buttons too). For those prices, I'd prefer he perform a little H202 dunking. This logicboard picture for instance screams for him to shoot some compressed air over it and remove the dust layer before he photographs it. But I've seen worse. Steve Jobs would never approve though. After all he was the guy who wanted to plate the inside of the Apple II with chrome to enhance the users aesthetic experience when they opened the case and insisted the Mac logicboard look pretty even though no user was ever to open the case!

 

[JDW]

It seems one must be careful deyellowing spacebars, or perhaps only Mac 128/512 keyboard keys in particular. Have a look at what happened to this poor fellow's spacebar!

 

[lumpydog]

Man... the guys on that thread are really frying there stuff.... 30%+ H202 concentration is what they are using if I follow correctly.

I put my spacebar in the 1.5 to 3% percent concentration solution for the 5th time yesterday (along with my 2nd HD20's case - which I just purchased). The spacebar finally looks like the rest of the keys. See pictures here (navigate through the series of pictures using the thumbnails to the right): http://www.flickr.com/photos/33624199@N08/sets/72157614991289408/

I took a bunch of pictures because the flash/lighting can have different effects on the results - it can make keys look different than they are to the naked eye.

Lumpy

 

[JDW]

Lumpy, in all your photos the spacebar does look lighter than the other keys, but I agree it could be your spacebar simply reflecting the camera flash. To eliminate this, just shoot the keyboard outside and/or use a tripod when shooting, and be sure to kill the flash. And to really get a great photo, white balance the camera first by putting a sheet of white paper in front of the lens, angled to reflect light in a way similar to the keyboard you are shooting. Then we can see the keys and colors in all their glory, just as your own eyes do.

 

[lumpydog]

JDW:

I will give that a try. To my eye, the spacebar looks identical to the rest! Pictures once I get a free moment and some daylight. None of he other keys were washed. The surrounding beige plastic was.

Lumpy

 

[Mac128]

I put my spacebar in the 1.5 to 3% percent concentration solution for the 5th time yesterday (along with my 2nd HD20's case - which I just purchased). The spacebar finally looks like the rest of the keys.

Clearly the formula for the spacebar is to leave it in 5x as long as the rest of the case. I thought this was an extremely helpful thread. You've got a nice history on that spacebar, what would you determine would the be the optimal duration to soak it based on the 3% formula? You should also chime in over there with your 303 Protectant info.

 

[Bunsen]

http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/

 

[JDW]

Bunsen, thank you for reposting that link. (It was originally posted here by istar1080.) This is a long thread, so another mention doesn't hurt.

But it is important for all readers of this thread and the retrobright site to keep in mind that Lumpy has done some excellent work here on 68kMLA. And after reading the retrobright site and the Vintage Computer threads, I see that Lumpy's technique is preferred. It uses small, safe amounts of H202 -- and for those of your living outside Japan, that means a cost savings and prevents you from de-yellowing too much too quickly. But perhaps the single most important point we all need to consider is the slightly different method advocated by the RetroBright site versus Lumpy's approach. Lumpy went the all-liquid route. RetroBright is using a paste. If you read through the Vintage Computer threads, you will see how the paste dries and solidifies and flakes. This requires frequent re-applications through the day and, from what I see, can also result in a rather non-uniform de-yellowing if not done with great care. True, Lumpy's approach requires a lot more liquid (and is therefore expensive for people like me who live in Japan), but so long as you keep the parts exposed well to UV, you don't have to worry about your solution drying out and flaking or your de-yellowing job getting patchy results. Lumpy's approach also does not require a blender or even safety googles as are highly recommended when making the RetroBright paste.

So perhaps we need to call the liquid version, LumpyBright? In any case, thank you, LumpyDog.

 

[Mac128]

But it is important for all readers of this thread and the retrobright site to keep in mind that Lumpy has done some excellent work here on 68kMLA. And after reading the retrobright site and the Vintage Computer threads, I see that Lumpy's technique is preferred. ...

So perhaps we need to call the liquid version, LumpyBright? In any case, thank you, LumpyDog.

Actually, Lumpy is just using the first incarnation of what has become RetrOBright, which is quoted below:

“The problem was finally cracked in late July 2008 with a mixture of hydrogen peroxide, a small amount of an “Oxy” laundry booster as a catalyst and a UV lamp; we believed that this could do the job in hours instead of days. ... “All of the initial tests were done with a liquid and we realised that for large parts this was getting expensive, so the next stage was to develop a paintable “gel” version that could be brushed onto larger surfaces. ... We have now released this to the public domain for anyone to use, as we can’t patent it and we coined the nickname “Retr0bright” for it, as it summed up what we were actually doing with it.”

So as much as I thank Lumpy for discovering that smaller concentrations work just as well, thereby also reducing cost and improving overall results, I'm afraid very little credit can be attributed solely to him. His discovery of the 303 protectant as a preservative is worth its weight in gold. Perhaps we should call it "RetrOBright/Lumpy-ized".

Actually after tracing the path on the Retrobright page, I discovered that the original English Amiga forum pages have some very interesting background in terms of tracing the evolution of the development of the process. Some good science in there if you're curious. But Merlin has taken credit for creating the magic brew since the beginning, liquid or gel. However, none have ever used as low a concentration as Lumpy.

 

[napabar]

Congrats on the 512! It's a great little machine that can still connect to a modern network.

The Mac 512k can directly talk to any Mac using Personal File Sharing from System 7 all the way to 9. (AppleShare servers too)

It can also, with a little help, file share with a modern Mac running 10.5! I had a post on here a while back about it. If you'd like more info, let me know!