Help convince me about SCSI2SD and Flash Storage

[0xABE]

Actually, you can (at least, I fairly sure it would work) but the adapters are expensive and the improvement isn't great. The limiting factor is the 5MB/s SCSI bus.

A company by the name of Acard makes an IDE to 68-pin SCSI adapter. If you can find one, it will set you back a couple of hundred dollars. Added to that you need an IDE to SATA adapter (although an IDE to mSATA might be better). As well as that, you'll need a SCSI 68-pin to 50-pin adapter. These can be gotten from China for $10. This should work but since I've never tried it, I can't vouch for it.

However, since you can get 2 or 3 SCSI2SDs for the same price, I recommend the SCSI2SDs. Fewer cables. More space for cooling to circulate inside your Mac.

Another idea for speed, although it is hassle is to get a 64MB SIMM and set up a RAM-drive. Boot first from an external HD (or floppy), copy the system folder across to the RAM disk, reboot from the RAMdisk with the external HD turned off. It is as fast as SCSI2SD (well, it is on my Performa 475). It helps if you have a network handy to copy/save files. The machine is quiet and responsive, but still requires two boots whenever you want to use it. You also have less RAM at your disposal but you don't really more than 16MB anyway.

LOL, That’s quite the chain of adapters, and  it sounds expensive. I agree the SCSI2SD is more practical (and affordable).

I bought 2 32MB SIMMs thinking I was maxing it out. (I read that max ram is 68MB) ... 4MB onboard. Can I really put 64MB SIMMs in it? I’d like to get 132MB!

 

[0xABE]

This was only ever true for writes, and even then mostly stopped being true for mainstream computer SSDs a decade ago. For the type of work a Quadra 660 is capable of, a good high end SD card, which is recommended, will last for Quite A While.

The other aspect of this is that with sufficient memory, even with virtual memory turned on, Classic Mac OS does almost no random disk writes for no good reason, the way modern computers do. (For example, most modern web browsers, near constantly write data to your hard disk, which is what allows quick crash/tab recovery, and continuous updating text editors like Atom and VS Code do something similar.)

More importantly, there's a dwindling supply of working mechanical SCSI HDDs that are suitable for these machines.

The 660 with 7.6.1 or 8.1 will happily run very very large disks, so if you found the right chain of adapters and a 300 gig server disk, for example, it would work, but as has been mentioned, cooling will be an issue, especially if your 660 has a CD drive and any cards installed.

If your 660 has a working disk now, it's not a bad idea to get a SCSI2SD to use as a backup, or back up important data on it to a server (whether that's an a2server or something off-site such as vtools) and make sure you have bootable media to recover/reinstall from.

A future project I'd like to do, unless someone else wants to do it sooner, is to build, say, 7.1 Pro, 7.5.5, and 7.6.1 media that has the necessary upgrades pre-integrated on the CD. (Ideally: it's just a pre-patched installation distribution, but in reality it'll most likely be a set of SimpleText documents showing what to install, along with some other common getting started items, such as Stuffit and Disk Utility and an FTP client or web browser.)

If you were feeling really extravegant or you had several old Macs you wanted to reinstall often, a SCSI2SD v5.5 with one or more SD card set up to do installs on a few different types of Macs would be a neat addition to a toolkit, and would ease the pain of having dying/dead CD or floppy drives.

Having prebuilt discs with all the goodies is a great idea.

 

[ArmorAlley]

LOL, That’s quite the chain of adapters, and  it sounds expensive. I agree the SCSI2SD is more practical (and affordable).

Well, Apple and the endless chain of adapters is a trope, but, in this case, it is a testimony to the brilliance of SCSI that it transcends 30 years of development. There are few technologies in computing nowadays where one can take a device from today and run it with a couple adapters in a device from 30 years' ago. It is planend obsolescence turned on its head. SCSI is, by far, the most versatile bus.

I bought 2 32MB SIMMs thinking I was maxing it out. (I read that max ram is 68MB) ... 4MB onboard. Can I really put 64MB SIMMs in it? I’d like to get 132MB!

You can but you won't. I have a Quadra 610 which isn't that different from your Q660av. It also registers a max. of 68MB (64 + 4) despite the presence of a 128MB SIMM.

You will, btw, get 132MB on a Performa 475/LC475/Quadra 605 though.

 

[waynestewart]

I was given a number of acard adapters a number of years ago. Originally they had ide drives attached to them but I opted to CF adapters. Did use a SATA drive with one for a while but since I couldn't see a speed difference I went to a CF with that one too. I've been using CF & SD cards as HDs for a number of years and have yet to have one die. 

Maybe part of it is because I've changed my habits. I used to empty the trash right after I deleted a file. Now since the card is usually many times the size of the original  HD, I now wait until I have a few hundred mb in the trash. I have this idea that I'm not constantly rewriting the same areas.

 

[Crutch]

On @Trash80toHP_Mini‘s point about exposing the SD card thru a security slot, I just wanted to point out you don’t need any case mods to do this. Long ribbon adapters are available for the purpose, for example this “LANMU Micro SD TO SD Card” https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D9JIUU0?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I have one in my SE/30. Just snake the male end thru the security slot from the outside and plug into an internally mounted SCSI2SD, then leave the female end stuck to the outside of the case (I used a Velcro dot). I can pull out the SD card any time without opening the Mac. It’s great. 

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

That's exactly the cable I'm talking about. I like the idea of modding the SD side and locking bars inside to create a workable SD Card slot that would have just a bit of the card protruding. Your suggestion is much more basic and far better for most folks. I like to take things over the top. []

 

[0xABE]

On @Trash80toHP_Mini‘s point about exposing the SD card thru a security slot, I just wanted to point out you don’t need any case mods to do this. Long ribbon adapters are available for the purpose, for example this “LANMU Micro SD TO SD Card” https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D9JIUU0?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I have one in my SE/30. Just snake the male end thru the security slot from the outside and plug into an internally mounted SCSI2SD, then leave the female end stuck to the outside of the case (I used a Velcro dot). I can pull out the SD card any time without opening the Mac. It’s great. 

Just what I need!

 

[Bunsen]

If you want to max out the transfer speed on that 5MB/s SCSI bus, the v6 SCSI2SD would do that for you.

https://store.inertialcomputing.com/SCSI2SD-v6-p/scsi2sd-v6-revf.htm

 

[dcr]

I know this is an old thread but, for whatever it may be worth, I have a USB flash drive that's probably twenty years old.  It's only 256 MB.  Got it around the time that we got a blue and white G3 tower at the office and I used it to take files between work and home.  And, fingers crossed, it's still working.  I kind of remember having to reformat it once, maybe twice, but other than that it keeps working.  I currently use it to transfer files from one computer to another (non-networked) computer.  I had to recently glue the case back together as part of it was falling apart.  (Cosmetic, really, but it was simple enough to glue to repair.)  But, so far, it keeps going.  I think it has a couple bad areas on it so I can't fill it with files, but otherwise it still works.

Hopefully, it will continue to work for another twenty years, if needed.

Granted, it doesn't get as much action as using it as a boot device may, but I think it's still shown some pretty good longevity.  I have a SCSI2SD in my Quadra 800, but I haven't used it often enough to weigh in on that, but I feel fairly confident in using it.  I believe I did use one of the "industrial strength" SD cards in it though.

But, as others have said, it's easy enough to back up an SD card to a modern computer.  Before I installed the SCSI2SD in my Quadra, I did not have a complete backup of the internal drive.  I had all the files but not the programs and all that.  And it was a sticky drive that sometimes requires a good whack to start up.  Once I installed the SCSI2SD, I was able to make a complete disk image of the Quadra's hard drive and then save that disk image to my main computer's external hard drive.  So I can restore from that image at any time.  It's a "time capsule" at the moment because most of what's on it is what I used twenty years ago before the Q800 was replaced by the G3. I plan to (hopefully I will do it to) make additional disk images of the SCSI2SD's drives so those can be backed up as well, including after I add whatever software I might end up adding to the machine.

Right now, it still boots off the original hard drive.  One of the partitions on the SCSI2SD has a copy of that drive so if it stops working, I can still boot it up just like it was.  That's another option: keeping the original HD along with the SCSI2SD.  Use one partition as a mirror/backup of the HD, and use the other partitions for files, storage, whatever.  That way, you can continue to enjoy the original HD experience for as long as it lasts while still having a mirror/backup should it fail.

 

[LaPorta]

To add to dcr, I have an 8 GB flash drive stick that ive has since med school at least 12-13 years ago. It’s even been through my washing machine once by accident. Still works perfectly without issue.