Classic Mac serving files through TCP enabled Mac.

[napabar]

I have a Color Classic with System 7.6.1 and ShareWay IP that let's my share files to my Intel iMac with 10.5.2. From there, I run a program called iPhone Remote, which let's me share any mounted drive with my iPhone. It's pretty neat to browse the hard drive of my little Color Classic on my iPhone.

I'd like to take it a step further, and share the Hard Drive of a Mac Plus/SE/Classic. If I hook this older model of Mac to my Color Classic with Localtalk and System 7, and share it's hard drive on the Color Classic, can the CC share this drive forward onto my iMac? Would I need the LocalTalk Bridge software for this? I'm thinking I don't for this purpose.

 

[Mac128]

If I hook this older model of Mac to my Color Classic with Localtalk and System 7, and share it's hard drive on the Color Classic, can the CC share this drive forward onto my iMac? Would I need the LocalTalk Bridge software for this? I'm thinking I don't for this purpose.

Typically the computer that is accessing the volume must mount it directly, not via an intermediate. There might be a way to set this up by opening up all of the permissions, etc. so that the volume appears to the third computer by merely logging onto the CC.

LocalTalk bridge only puts LocalTalk access onto an Ethernet bus, so it's not applicable here, other than as a connection method. Since you will most likely need to connect to the older Mac directly from your iMac, LocalTalk bridge will be necessary. Have you been to http://www.mac512.com/macwebpages/appletal.htm ?

 

[JDW]

Since we're on the subject of networking 68k Macs with OS X in this thread, I thought it best to mention that we have discussed IPNetTuner here, and System 7.5~8.1 Appletalking with OS X here.

 

[napabar]

A LocalTalk bridge device wont do any good here. Mac OS 10.4 and higher can no longer use AppleTalk for file sharing. That's why I want to use the Color Classic as the gateway. It can share using AppleTalk and TCP/IP over AppleTalk. I'm hoping that if the older Mac's hard drive is mounted on the CC, and I share via TCP/IP, then my iMac will see both the CC's hard drive and the Classic Mac's hard drive.

 

[JDW]

OS 10.4/10.5 still uses the Apple File Protocol (formerly, Appletalk File Protocol, or AFP). You should take time to read through the thread I linked to in my previous post above, the Vintage Macs Google Group thread. The most relevant post in that thread is my post in the middle of the thread. I give a lot of detail in that post.

Now if you want to ditch ShareWay IP, there's a simple Apple-approval hack to do so. The "TCPQuantum" hack is described in this Vintage Macs thread. (Search for "tcpquantum" in that thread and look for my post under JDW -- I present all the steps clearly.)

Of course, the information I am directing you to is tailored toward SE/30 users or users of other 68k Macs that have built-in Ethernet. I am quite ignorant of CC's, but I have read that some 3rd party cards were available to add a real Ethernet port to CC's. (Here's an ethernet card for under $10, sold by a very reputable EBAY seller.) Yet other Ethernet cards are available for the SE, and SCSI-to-Ethernet adapters are commonly found on EBAY, for use with your Plus and Classic. So with all your Macs directly using Ethernet, it would be the same setup as I have with my MacCon Ethernet card in my SE/30 when connecting to my G4 Cube. In such a case, you would not need any LocalTalk/PhoneNet to Ethernet bridge. And so long as you are using some flavor of System 7.5, System 7.6 or OS 8.1 (or higher), you just need to follow the steps I present on those other threads and you can get networking right away with your modern OS 10.4 or 10.5 Mac.

 

[Mac128]

A LocalTalk bridge device wont do any good here. Mac OS 10.4 and higher can no longer use AppleTalk for file sharing. That's why I want to use the Color Classic as the gateway. It can share using AppleTalk and TCP/IP over AppleTalk. I'm hoping that if the older Mac's hard drive is mounted on the CC, and I share via TCP/IP, then my iMac will see both the CC's hard drive and the Classic Mac's hard drive.

Yeah, I don't think it will work that way. A simple test with 3 OSX Macs is from your first Mac, mount a second Mac. Then using a third Mac, mount the first Mac. You will note you are not presented with the option to mount the second Mac's drive, regardless of the sharing settings for both Macs.

Leopard may offer more options than Tiger. However, you will still have to get your Vintage Mac visible to OS X via the Ethernet bus, which means you have to cross over LocalTalk to Ethernet. As you correctly point out, Apple's software bridge will still not make it visible. You will need a third party application that will translate access to the mounted server volume and assign it an IP address on the Ethernet bus, which OS X will understand. IP Net Router may actually be able to accomplish this. But nothing built into the CC 7.6.1 or from Apple will accomplish this.

Then there's that 512K I suspect you want to access from your iPhone. ;-) Curiously, if AppleShare 1.0 will run off an HD20 on a stock 512K, you should have no problems once you get AppleShare's mounted volumes assigned an IP address on the CC. However, if it won't I wonder if such a third party application will work with any mounted volume? In which case there are other peer-to-peer options for the 512K which once mounted on the CC (assuming something that old will also work under 7.6.1), may be no different than an AppleShare volume to the IP app.

However, before you go out to show off your iPhone connectivity, you'll have to power up the 512K & HD20 and mount it on the CC.

One question about that iPhone remote control though ... I have been leery of trying it out because of the massive privacy issues involved in terms of giving a third party company with no real pedigree access to my system passwords and files. I presume no one has hacked your keychain and is ruining your good name all over the internet yet?

 

[napabar]

I've got an ethernet card in my Color Classic. It works just fine. I just wanted to use it as a way to get an older mac that can't share over TCP/IP to my iMac and then to my iPhone.

Looks like what you reported on involves older macs that are still able to run Open Transport (example the SE/30). The Macs I want to get working have the 68000 processor, and cannot run OT. They have to use AppleTalk only, (Not AppleTalk over IP) with the classic networking.

 

[napabar]

Well, I guess I just need to get that Mac Plus/SE/Classic and give it a whirl. I'll look into IP Net Router on the CC to help share the mounted volume from the older Mac.

As for iPhone remote, I have no worries using it. It's simply a fancy web service for Mac OS X. You have to do some port mapping for security, and you set your own password for the service. It's not tied into your admin account (unless you make it the same). The whole thing runs local, the developer is not involved in anything.

 

[Mac128]

Well, I guess I just need to get that Mac Plus/SE/Classic and give it a whirl. I'll look into IP Net Router on the CC to help share the mounted volume from the older Mac.
As for iPhone remote, I have no worries using it. It's simply a fancy web service for Mac OS X. You have to do some port mapping for security, and you set your own password for the service. It's not tied into your admin account (unless you make it the same). The whole thing runs local, the developer is not involved in anything.

Charlieman will hopefully weigh in on this topic as well. If you didn't check out http://www.vintagemacworld.com/apple_software.html it is a good review as he has been dealing with a lot of the issues JDW raises and more. Personally I think you are going to need what is essentially a 68K software router, that assigns sub-IP addresses to every mounted volume on your system regardless of the source and then provides access to them via a single external global IP address for OS X.

Don't you have to grant the software installer access to your System? Again unverifiable third party company installing networking software on my system. I'll see how it goes for you as I follow your progress with getting the 512K online, before I jump on board that bandwagon. I hope you fins a solution as that would be really cool to get the 512K accessible via the iPhone.

 

[napabar]

No, it's just a drag and drop application. It's an open source app from Google Code. When you first access it on the iPhone or any computer with a web browser, it's sends out a secure certificate and you have to login using the account name and password that you setup in the iPhone preferences. I would think if there was something shady going on, this would have been shut down by Google or the Google Code community. I only turn it on when I'm showing it off to other Techy people. It's rarely ever on.

 

[napabar]

Yeah, I don't think it will work that way. A simple test with 3 OSX Macs is from your first Mac, mount a second Mac. Then using a third Mac, mount the first Mac. You will note you are not presented with the option to mount the second Mac's drive, regardless of the sharing settings for both Macs.

I've been working on this for a few days. Found some interesting things out. In general, as you pointed out, shared drives cannot be shared again to another Mac. I did find some interesting exceptions, though. If I mount the public folder of someone's iDisk on my iMac, my Color Classic can see it and connect to it. Same goes for a FTP share created from NetPresenz. Neither of these can be shared from the OS or from Sharepoint. But if I log into my iMac from the Color Classic with my owner account, I can connect to these shares. What's weird is, iDisk uses WebDav, but if I make my own WebDav folder, I can't share it forward. The only thing the two different shares (iDisk and FTP) had in common was that they were read only.

There seems to be ways to make it work. I'm going to keep at it. If nothing else, I could mount a FTP share from a Mac Plus/SE/Classic to my iMac. It will show up as a drive, and from there the iPhone can access it. Still leaves the 512k out though....

 

[Charlieman]

Not a lot to add really.

TOPS is the only application of which I am aware that allows you to reshare a shared volume. If somebody fancies an interesting development project, how about this: an INIT or app that modifies the flag on a shared volume so that it can be reshared. This will probably kill the ability of the Mac that is hosting the original share to use that volume but may allow access from another Mac.

 

[nahuelmarisi]

Well as far as I know you can't use AFP over Appletalk (as opposed to tcp/ip) in Leopard.

However, you could use ftp with your classic's. I use FTP to share files with my macintosh plus over ethernet and MacTCP. You can run machttp or ftpd in system 7.0.1 to be able to mount their volumes on your OSX machine.

 

[napabar]

Think I've got it. The solution was in front of me the whole time. I had been using Shareway IP PERSONAL on my Color Classic so that it could serve to my iMac running 10.5. I never bothered to read about the more advanced versions you could buy from them. Turns out, if you have Shareway IP STANDARD, you can use the Mac running it as a gateway to bring a older Appleshare only Mac (or any Appleshare server like NT or Novell) across through TCP/IP. I will need to get a Plus/SE/Classic to test this. If that works, and I can track down the EasyShare software, then I'll invest in a working 512k and HD20 and give it a try!

 

[Mac128]

The solution was in front of me the whole time. I had been using Shareway IP PERSONAL on my Color Classic so that it could serve to my iMac running 10.5. I never bothered to read about the more advanced versions you could buy from them. Turns out, if you have Shareway IP STANDARD, you can use the Mac running it as a gateway to bring a older Appleshare only Mac (or any Appleshare server like NT or Novell) across through TCP/IP.

I think

I said that

;-) :
IP Net Router does exactly the same thing but is shareware.

I'm hoping you do dig up EasyShare as it sounds like it would solve many problems for all us old Mac users, particularly if it works on a 128K too.

 

[napabar]

I think I said that ;-)

IP Net Router does exactly the same thing but is shareware.

I'm hoping you do dig up EasyShare as it sounds like it would solve many problems for all us old Mac users, particularly if it works on a 128K too.

I took a look at IPNetRouter, but couldn't make heads nor tails of it. Everything I read on their site revolved around giving internet access through LocalTalk to an older Mac. I didn't see anything about sharing an Appleshare network volume to another Mac through TCP/IP. I might have missed something, but in any event, it's a very un-Mac like program. Shareway IP is pretty much click and go.

If I get hold of EasyShare and it works on the 512k, I'll fire off a copy to you to try on the 128k. I assume the only thing you'd be able to share is an external 400k drive, but that would be the coolest!

Here's what the Read Me files says about the RAM it uses.

Memory usage
EasyShare INIT approximately 53 K bytes

EasyShare desk accessory (when opened) approximately 32 K bytes

That's 85k. How much does System 3.2 take up? Looks like it would be pretty tight!

 

[napabar]

I've been playing around with Public Folder and JCRemote. They both are similar in that they are pre-System 7 peer-to-peer file sharing programs. They are use Appletalk, bit not Appleshare/AFP. They are both Chooser extensions that you must have on but ends to use it, and they don't mount drives, just fetch files/folders. One interesting item I found is that JCRemtote, I could "share a share". I mounted a volume on my Color Classic from my iMac running 10.5. Then I connected to my CC with an LC running 6.0.8 with JCRemote. I was able to see the iMac's volume and pull files/folders from it! Wrong direction for my ultimate needs, but pretty interesting. Shows AppleShare's limitation on this is Apple manufactured. Public Folder (From Claris) does not let you do this, just like AppleShare.

 

[JDW]

For the sake of those coming to this thread by searching this site, I would like to mention that I expand on my previous post and add a lot of Vintage Mac Filesharing details in this thread.