Can't Install Linux on Quicksilver G4

[CC_333]

Hi,

While the SE/30 boards are being squared away (http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17775), I thought I'd see if I can get some help with another problem.

The problem is a Quicksilver G4 I have that refuses to boot any variant of Linux. At the same time, it seems to run Mac OS X (which is Unix based) perfectly, which further perplexes me.

I have tried the following to no avail:

-Zapping the PRAM

-Resetting NVRAM/Open Firmware

-Resetting the Power Management Unit (after doing this a few times, Linux gets a little farther along, but it still freezes before doing anything useful)

-Different hard drives

-Booting from different DVD drives (including Firewire devices)

-Using different cables

-Replacing the memory

-Replacing the logic board

The only things I haven't replaced are the case, power supply, and processor card. Obviously the case wouldn't cause this problem, so that leaves me with only two possible culprits: the power supply and the processor card.

As stated above, it seems to work just fine in Mac OS X (it's a little problematic at times in Mac OS 9, but resetting the PMU seems to fix it for awhile).

Also, the Apple Hardware Diagnostic doesn't report any hardware problems.

I'd like to see if it can be fixed without replacing either the power supply or the processor card. I would prefer to repair the existing power supply if it turns out to be the problem (it has a 50-50 chance at this point).

Thank you!

c

 

[theos911]

If X works fine then your hardware is [likely] fine.

What Distro are your trying and how are you burning the disk?

 

[jruschme]

Also, how are you booting the install CD? I seem to have the best luck on the install CDs when booting from OF with something like "boot cd,:\\yaboot". HOlding down opt and clicking on Tux has never worked well for me.

 

[CC_333]

HI,

It doesn't matter how I do it; the install CD will NOT boot past a certain point.

It doesn't matter how I select the CD, either.

If it gets far enough, it'll freeze at an error message stating something like "cannot activate rtc".

I've tried various versions of Ubuntu and Fedora, and they all do the same thing.

I also tried a bunch of different methods for burning the disks. All acted the same way.

I am stumped!

c

 

[PowerPup]

I've been successfully able to use Ubuntu 6.06, Finnix, Frugalware, and Slackintosh 11 on my Sawtooth G4. It's been a little while since I've messed with Linux, or Linux on PPC.

The only thing I can think of that would cause problems is that the Linux kernel is missing drivers for specific hardware your Quicksilver uses.

One of the few things I mastered (if not only,) when trying to make my PowerPup Linux OS was creating the bootable ISO. To boot up my disc all I had to do was hold c, and it went right to Yaboot. Actually, that's pretty much the way I've booted any Linux disc... Guess it's just the particular Macs I have.

 

[CC_333]

Hi, PowerPup,

I doubt the drivers (or a lack thereof) are at fault; By chance, I got another Quicksilver recently, and it runs Linux (the installation program, anyway) just fine. That, to me, proves that there ARE drivers for this machine, and that there is a slight fault somewhere that prevents Linux from booting up. The problem is, I don't know what that fault would be.

The CDs seem to be fine (I tried them on the other Quicksilver, where they booted successfully), so I don't think that is a problem.

Starting by either holding 'c' on the keyboard or holding down Option and selecting its button comes up with the same result.

If it were a hardware problem, what kind of problem would cause Linux to fail, yet allow Mac OS 9/Mac OS X to work perfectly?

c

 

[CC_333]

Well...

Just posting to keep the topic alive!

c

 

[FlyingToaster]

 

[CC_333]

???

 

[FlyingToaster]

I forgot to add that my Quicksilver does the same thing..Although I didn't replace any parts to see why. It works normal in X. Just tired of making coasters and gave up.

 

[CC_333]

Oh, OK!

Well, I will swap the power supply from the other Quicksilver and see what happens. If there's no change, I guess I'll just forget about it.

c

 

[CC_333]

Minor Update:

I took the power supply from the Quicksilver which seemed to work with Linux, and put it in the "Linux-phobic" machine, which is still "Linux-phobic"!

The P/S didn't change anything, so it must be the processor card, the only part not yet replaced!

Oh, well... it's a good excuse to upgrade to something faster than 867 MHz!

c

 

[johnklos]

That sounds like there's a bad kernel version on these install CDs if it can't activate the RTC. It's also not good that it doesn't skip the issue and simply decide to not care.

Have you tried booting a BSD (other than OS X) to see what the dmesg says about your RTC?

 

[CC_333]

Have you tried booting a BSD (other than OS X) to see what the dmesg says about your RTC?

No.
I guess I could try some sort of BSD-type distribution and see what happens. The thing is, Linux won't progress far enough in the boot process to record anything in a log. It barely has enough time to put it up on the screen (most of the time it freezes with a blank screen), so dmesg probably won't help. Does Mac OS X have something similar that could yield some useful information? Maybe I will have better luck with BSD?

That sounds like there's a bad kernel version on these install CDs if it can't activate the RTC

As I said, Mac OS X seems to work, while Linux doesn't. I seriously doubt it's a bad Linux kernel, since the SAME disk (and kernel) works fine on other machines (tested on another Quicksilver and a PowerBook G3 Pismo). I suspect a possible hardware problem with the RTC, but I'm not sure, hence this thread.

It's also not good that it doesn't skip the issue and simply decide to not care.

I don't understand.
In the meantime, Ubuntu (the Linux I've been trying to use) works rather well (albeit quite slowly) on the 500 MHz Pismo. It would only be faster and better on the Quicksilver, if only the cruddy thing would just boot it!!!

c

 

[johnklos]

Basically, I'm saying that the GNU/Linux kernel is bad if it comes across something it doesn't handle gracefully. If, for instance, the battery were completely dead and the RTC said it was 1927, most OSes should and would gracefully choose to do something different - BSD, for instance, uses the time of the last update of the filesystem. This is why several GNU/Linux distros, I'm guessing, boot on other machines but not on this specific machine. If you booted a NetBSD disk which said something like this, then that would explain what's going on:

WARNING: TOY clock not marked valid
WARNING: preposterous TOD clock time
WARNING: using filesystem time
WARNING: CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!

 

[CC_333]

I tried booting NetBSD, which seems more or less successful, so long as I don't try installing to a hard drive (or anything else beyond navigating directories and running dmesg), in which case it freezes hard (no kernel panic or anything).

Nothing that I understand seems to be wrong in dmesg except the last two lines:

WARNING: clock gained 42 days
WARNING: CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!

That warning appears regardless of the date/time settings in Mac OS X.

And why would it be off by 42 days?

By the way, it successfully initialized the RTC.

I'm stumped!

c

EDIT: While was typing this post, I noticed that it had frozen solid while idling.

 

[jruschme]

Sounds to me like a memory issue. Have you tried swapping RAM with the other QS?

Last resort would be swapping CPU cards to rule out a cache issue.

 

[CC_333]

Yes, I've swapped the RAM.

I guess I'll try swapping the CPU. I didn't think it would be a cache problem.

I had a Pismo CPU card with bad cache and it had similar symptoms, so I suppose it's possible...

Thank you!

c

 

[CC_333]

Partial Success-

I swapped the CPU, and I got it to boot Linux! So it must be a cache problem.

However, it freezes when I try to do anything graphical (such as X.org, etc.) and the installer DVD reverts to text mode. Loading anything graphical seems to hard freeze the machine Could that be related to the video card I have installed? It is the stock card from a Quicksilver 2001 (this machine was upgraded to a Quicksilver 2002 via a logic board replacement when the old one died; all other non-logic board related specifications are the same, including the video card and CPU card).

I had at one point an ATI Radeon 9000 card installed (for QE and CI support under Leopard), but it died, so I reverted to the old one (I think Nvidia Geforce 2mx or Geforce 3mx).

Any suggestions?

I've made a little progress, anyway...

c