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Battle-scarred B&W G3

bluetree

6502
Hello, first post here but long time reader. I just wanted to share my recently purchased Rev. 1 300mhz G3 I bought on CL for $20. Always wanted one, I have a lot of other macs but nothing as quacky as this thing. It came with no feet handles so the side panels were getting ruined. Those came off for now. It was loaded with no ram, no HD, and no CD bezel.

I swapped the graphics with a Radeon 7000 and put lots of RAM in. I'm also waiting for a Sonnet Tempo HD PCI card to come in the mail to bypass the built-in IDE. I'm having no luck booting or doing anything with that. Can't wait till the card comes. Good day

bttw If anyone has some extra G3 or G4 feet for sale, please keep me in mind!

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Nice find. I'd imagine you could find the feet and bezel easily enough (if you don't mind the colors not matching up, these parts from a Graphite (gray) G4, which are probably somewhat easier to find, would probably fit?)

Also, if you want to get rid of that terrible on-board IDE (rather than simply bypassing it, as I think there are other benefits), you could either upgrade the logic board to a rev. 2 board, or you could upgrade it to a G4 Yikes! board (I see that as essentially a rev. 3 of sorts, except it has no ADB port. I think it can be added back with a few other parts, though. Or so I read several years ago.)

c

 
 I was looking on ebay for the handles. There are a few but they don't have the screws included. Bummer. The G4 upgrade sounds fun. Just gotta get the case looking better

 
Ooooooh this is my jam! :D

With luck you should be able to obtain some suitable screws if you can obtain the thread specifics... I can pull a screw out of one of mine and see if i can do some research if it helps. hopefully they arent a near impossibly to get proprietry thread like some grub screws and machine screws used in other electronic equipment (such as Jaycar amplifiers).

But yes, I have a couple of these... One of them started life as a 300 Rev.1 like yours and I built it about 13 years ago for video-editing. I was one of the few Rev.1 owners to not have the IDE corruption issues with non-OEM hard drives, however when I became privvy to the inherent shortcomings of the Rev.1 board (and also became tiresome of the hobbled 300Mhz chip with it's small cache), I purchased a secondhand Rev.2 logic board complete with 450mhz CPU and heatsink, and the slightly faster video card, and experimented with overclocking to 500mhz, which worked fine with an extra fan added to the CPU heatsink. I had picked up another G3 with a bad logic board very early in the piece as well i purchased cheap, and succeeded in overclocking it to 450mhz from 400mhz with great results. :D

I also have a second one that is flashed for a sonnet G4 processor, which is running my stock 350mhz Yikes G4 chip, and my Yikes is running the 500mhz sonnet encore chip. Unfortunately you cant make proper use of a G4 chip on a G3 board without the Sonnet firmware flash, and possibly won't recognise it at at all... I will try it out on my unflashed G3 to confirm. As stated above, the G3 Yosemite and G4 Yikes boards are almost identical, with the Yikes basically being little more than a third revision G3 board. It has firmware which supports a G4 CPU natively (for obvious reason) and also has ADB componentry deleted from the board. If you can get a Yikes logic board, you will be abe to run an Encore 500mhz upgrade ZIF natively, plug and play. Also as mentioned, the cases are identical in construction except for the removable backplate for the port panel. So if you are able to find a dead Yikes G4 or empty Yikes case, then you could either swap the working internals into that case, or rob parts to fix your case. The Sawtooth cases are also very similar so all external plastics should interchange, however internal bosses, pressings and mounts may differ. The DA and onwards start to increasingly differ... that said the feet may still interchange with luck.

Anyway, that all aside, some other info that is possibly of some use to you...

Max RAM ceiling is 1Gb with 4x256Mb 168-PIN PC100 SDRAM modules... 133 is also acceptable.

Maximum CPU speed using onboard multiplier jumpers is 500mhz. There was at one point a 900mhz upgrade released however this from memory slowed the system bus to 66mhz. CPU and bus clock are controlled by a jumper block on the logic board with a WARRANTY VOID IF REMOVED sticker. This allows for a lot of playing, but please do not touch this without being fully aware of what you are doing!!!

You can put up to two HDD's of up to 130MB capacity each onto the primary 100mhz IDE bus, and you will note that there is room for at least 3 or 4 drives however. This is because the G3 was available in server form or or optionally with a SCSI adapter on the PCI bus to allow support for many and large drives. This in itself makes me think Aplle knew about the corruption issues, but I digress. Anyway, you may notice an extra IDE plug for a slave drive on the secondary bus below the CD drive. this was intended expressly for the optional ZIP drive. Whilst some people find it tempting to place a Hard drive in this space, this is not advisable for a number of reasons. The first, and this is one i learned the hard way building a machine for my high school, is heat... A hard disc mounted in that ZIP bay lasted all of a year in that machine (this is the machine running the yikes processsor and a sonnet reflash, before it failed due to overheating. Secondly, the secondary IDE bus is only a 66mhz bus, so therefore throughput speeds are far slower when accesssing any hard drive attached to it. And lastly, there is the Master/Slave issue. As a G3 or G4 of this era is not able to boot from the secondary slave, if you have the CD-ROM as the slave drive, it will be an unbootable drive in the event that you need to boot from it. the only way around it will be to change the config to slave. Now I hear you ask "Why not just run it as master then?"... Well, the problem is, if there is no volume in the CD-ROM drive at boot time, then the computer will skip looking for a slave drive on the secondary bus, so your hard drive will be unmountable, unless you restart the machine with a CD in the drawer. It's an odd little quirk, but one worthy of note nonetheless. In any case, you really dont want to have to be keeping a CD in the tray just to have your G3 detect a hard drive.

Also something worth mentioning, is that the B+W G3 and the Yikes G4 were the first Mac's to have built in firewire. Now, the firewire ports and controller themselves have been known to get flakey with repeated hotplugging and general use. However the point that actually brought me to mention firewire was pointing out that unlike the Pismo Powerbook, slotload iMac, and Sawtooth G4 and all their succesors, the Yosemite/Yikes towers do NOT support firewire booting, nor do they support "target disk mode", which is the function by which you may effectively boot the machine as an external firewire device to another computer, allowing you to access it's volumes as if they were external removable drives.

One last thing that is worth mentioning, is that these machines are notorious for doing all sorts of things after major or even minor changes, or even after sitting unpowered for ages.If the machine becomes unbootable, don't be scared to hit the cuda switch on the logic board, hold the interupt button in on startup, zap the pram half a dozen times or whatever, in any sequence you please until it works again, as usually it will. When I got my G3.5 given too me 3rd hand (the one i built in high school), it was totally unresponsive and presumed dead. I reassembled it and after a lot of cursing and various resets and things, the stubborn thing came to life and has worked since. :) I've also had to do a cuda reset on my G3 and Yikes every time ive changed CPU's or CPU jumper configurations, or they simply wont boot.

Anyway, enjoy!

 
I saw this on OWC's site and almost bought it as a parts box for my B&W G3/400 tower, but decided against it. Glad it's found a new home!

 
Got my new Sonnet Tempo card installed along with a 2.5in 40gb drive. This thing runs wonderful. I ordered a G3 CD bezel from ebay but the seller seems to have disappeared. It sucks because she also has the handles I need but I'm hesitant to buy them now. In the mean time, I acquired 2 beige G3 minitowers. $5 each

Schmoburgerhttps://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?/user/2131-schmoburger/- I had to do the cuda button after I installed the card since it refused to boot. A strange machine this is
 
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The B/W G3 tower is one of my favs. It can be finicky when it comes to installing RAM, but it is an absolute workhorse. Mine is currently sporting a gray ZIP drive bezel from a Sawtooth G4 because I never got around to finding a blue one years ago. :)

 
My first B&W G3 was free because it fell off somebodies table and broke the legs plus bent the metal slightly. I just got a new set of legs and it still works fine after year of use and neglect.

 
Yep, they really are a rock-solid machine... My B+W and Yikes served me well for many many years with the only issue being i blew the internal speaker output circuitry in the Yikes a couple of years back by accidentally shorting the pins whilst experimenting with the idea of using a better speaker. That aside, both machines work perfectly aside from the occasional wierdness described earlier in the thread which is just a quirk of this particular logic board architecture... the abomination I got from my old high school in pieces even came back to life after years of mistreatment. :) My teenage brother also has a dual-CPU Sawtooth still cranking along nicely as well.

For what it's worth, I still used my G4 as a basic web-hack for a bit when my first G5 flaked out... was a bit painful by comparison however I largely attribute that to a little bit of Porsche-syndrome, but moreso to the the comparitive obesity of Tiger as an operating system. I feel it would still have operated comfortably in Panther, but the distinct lack of up to date browsers for anything prior to 10.4 means I didn't really have the option to stay put with 10.3.6, which  is to date still my favourite variant of OSX. As it stood, TenFourFox wouldnt run stabley anyway so I ended up settling for an oldish variant of Camino.

 
I wonder if TenFourFox can be stripped down a bit so that it can compile on 10.3.x?

The main thing which prevents this, I think, is that Tiger is the earliest OS to have at least some of the necessary frameworks for TTF to function properly.

c

 
Would be great if somebody could make a barebones version of TFF that works on 10.3.x... Or alternately if Camino happened to get picked up again as that was a very nice browser to use back in the day. Quick, stable and functional. And well... It is still the one that functions best under 10.4 on my clunking old Yikes.

But yeh, I'm sure certain missing componentry could be reverse engineered into 10.3 with a commited enough egghead on the case... I love how well Panther runs on machines of this particular era of unglamourous clock speeds and small RAM ceilings. It's just a shame thatit's a variant that has been pretty well universally abandoned, even by developers who exist to develop for legacy systems. Browsers are the major area that we suffer, as whilst an old audio suite does exactly what it did 10 years ago, most browsers that old are as good as useless in an ever changing netspace. We have Classila for OS9, TFF for 10.4... then there is that empty void between.

 
This comes as quite the revelation I must say... My understanding of it was that it was compiled only for OS9 and that the only way it would function in X was in Classic emulation. I might grab myself a copy today at some stage and fire up the G4.... See if I can confirm or refute their claims affirmatively. :)

 
I did see that yes.... I found the page to be rather contradictory from what I recall. On one hand its like "Herk der this browser is only for OS9 and nothing else", then on the same page it's like "10.1-10.3.9 blah blah". Only one way to find out. Shall report back later! :)

 
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