Are PowerBook keyboards ADB?

[olePigeon]

I was just wondering if 68k PowerBook keyboards are still ADB, or if they were something else? I was looking at a picture of one, and thought that with a 3D printed case, it'd make for a really nice looking charcoal colored Mac keyboard. Wasn't the TAM keyboard just a PowerBook keyboard? I seem to recall it was something like that.

 

[bibilit]

The TAM keyboard is a the same as the PowerBook 5300 (or 1400 ?) one IIRC, the screen is borrowed from a 3400 unit for sure.

And yes the TAM was adb, so probably all PowerBook units were using adb as well.

 

[chelseayr]

adb lasted a bit longer as internal-only bus in term of the powerbooks/ibooks .. I forgot exactly how long but I'm rather certain all g3 were still using it in some manner and its only the g4 era ones that finally really kicked the "last" legacy bus off in favour of usb

just if anyone might be wondering about "modern" keyboards that was still purely adb underneath otherwise

 

[obsolete]

adb lasted a bit longer as internal-only bus in term of the powerbooks/ibooks .. I forgot exactly how long but I'm rather certain all g3 were still using it in some manner and its only the g4 era ones that finally really kicked the "last" legacy bus off in favour of usb

just if anyone might be wondering about "modern" keyboards that was still purely adb underneath otherwise

The iBook G4 I bought in 2005 had an ADB keyboard. It may have had an ADB trackpad too, but I can't recall.

 

[NJRoadfan]

My 2003 G4 Albook still uses ADB for the keyboard. Don't know about the trackpad.

 

[olePigeon]

That's funny. I had no idea it lasted so long as an internal connector. I figured they'd 've switched to USB by then.

 

[demik]

And yes the TAM was adb, so probably all PowerBook units were using adb as well.

It's more subtle. PowerBooks 1xx and 5xx for example, the keyboard a simple matrix scanned by the PMU (a custom 6502 based microcontroller by Mitsubishi) which, on top of managing the power delivery, emulate a virtual ADB keyboard.

The trackball on these is a real ADB device however.

 

[Arbee]

It's more subtle. PowerBooks 1xx and 5xx for example, the keyboard a simple matrix scanned by the PMU (a custom 6502 based microcontroller by Mitsubishi) which, on top of managing the power delivery, emulate a virtual ADB keyboard.

The trackball on these is a real ADB device however.

The matrix on the 1xx PBs is actually scanned by a separate Mitsubishi M50740 microcontroller, which then turns it into ADB for the PMU's consumption. Kinda wasteful.

On PowerBooks with the PG&E PMU (Moto 68HC05) the keyboard is a simple matrix and the trackball is a raw quadrature hookup, very similar to the M0100 mouse from the 128/512/Plus. PG&E makes them both appear to the system as ADB devices. This is all Duos, all non-1XX up through at least the G3, and the 150.

 

[sfiera]

ADB is involved, but more to the point of the original question, isn't the connector on the back of that keyboard a ~20-pin ribbon cable? That might be rows and columns that any microcontroller could scan.

 

[gm_stack]

IIRC it was only the very last Aluminium PowerBook G4 (12" 1.5Ghz / 15"/17" ) that had a USB keyboard/trackpad - the one that introduced "two finger scrolling".

iScroll2 added support for it in a number of ADB ones previous to that: https://iscroll2.sourceforge.net/#checksupport

 

[demik]

The matrix on the 1xx PBs is actually scanned by a separate Mitsubishi M50740 microcontroller, which then turns it into ADB for the PMU's consumption. Kinda wasteful.

On PowerBooks with the PG&E PMU (Moto 68HC05) the keyboard is a simple matrix and the trackball is a raw quadrature hookup, very similar to the M0100 mouse from the 128/512/Plus. PG&E makes them both appear to the system as ADB devices. This is all Duos, all non-1XX up through at least the G3, and the 150.

Very interesting. I missed the second one while trying the map this. So there is two Mitsubishis ?
There isn't many schematics from theses around but on my PB180, I found one M50753 connected to somewhat to 343-1090-1 (Miscellaneous GLU ?) but it's on the dart board.

Now that makes sense as the keyboard is connected to the interconnect board which is connected to the CPU board. There is nothing on the interconnect board so that should be on the CPU board, maybe ?

Will try to trace the ADB line to see if it goes up the main connector. Do you know where the second microcontroller is located ? I'm probably missing something but I can't see the keyboard matrix lines going down the main board. So it's somewhere in the CPU board. 342S0743-1 ?

 

[Arbee]

@demik Here's PB140 schematics (also largely applicable to 160, of course). You can see the M50740 on PDF page 8 of the -410 file.

 

[demik]

@Arbee Perfect, got them, awesome, thanks !

So for reference :
PB140
- logic board / PMU : 342S0854-2 M50753-302PP
- CPU board / Keyboard : 342S0743-1 M50740 ≈

PB160 / 180
- logic board / PMU : 341S0930 M50753-306EF
- CPU board / Keyboard : 342S0743-1 M50740 ≈

 

[Arbee]

M50740 is the same chip used as the ADB microcontroller on the IIgs, where it also can optionally scan a matrix keyboard (for the IIe upgrade). I wouldn't be surprised if some of the code was the same.

 

[François]

The TAM keyboard is a the same as the PowerBook 5300 (or 1400 ?) one IIRC, the screen is borrowed from a 3400 unit for sure.

And yes the TAM was adb, so probably all PowerBook units were using adb as well.

Nobody’s ever opened a TAM keyboard, to see how it is interfaced?

 

[sfiera]

Ah, yes, I do have a picture of that around from when I swapped in a better unit from a 5300.

As you can see, the swappable unit has two ribbon cables running to an external microcontroller. I’d guess one is rows and one is columns. The thicker ones might be power and ground for the caps-lock LED.

 

[gm_stack]

So that 4 wire ribbon cable extending upwards from the centre of the PCB might just be stock standard ADB?

 

[sfiera]

Definitely is. Those connectors on the left and right of the daughterboard are ADB connectors.

 

[François]

Ah, yes, I do have a picture of that around from when I swapped in a better unit from a 5300.

As you can see, the swappable unit has two ribbon cables running to an external microcontroller. I’d guess one is rows and one is columns. The thicker ones might be power and ground for the caps-lock LED.

View attachment 66390

Thanks for the photo. Is the chip on this card one that is found in PowerBooks?

 

[olePigeon]

Hah! I love that the PCB was designed by Alps. I was expecting a © from Apple. Did Apple just throw the PowerBook keyboard at Alps and tell them to make it work?