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SE/30 Jailhouse vertical bars and other issues

karrots

Well-known member
Wire or if it's small enough you may be able to bridge with just solder. The. If you have some put a little solder mask back on it.

Also I'd you want to save your chip more heat get a socket for that chip solder that on the drop the chip inside.

 

PotatoFi

Well-known member
Also I'd you want to save your chip more heat get a socket for that chip solder that on the drop the chip inside.
YOU CAN GET SOCKETS FOR THOSE?! Oh man, I wish I'd known that when I did my ASC!

As for the break... yeah, I would try to bridge it with a bit of solder. Worst-case scenario, it doesn't work, and you end up running a little bodge wire on top later. No big deal.

And if the thought of a bodge wire bothers you, keep in mind that some of these machines (like some of the early Classic II logic boards) actually came with bodge wires installed from the factory.

Nice to see you over here after chatting on Reddit! Keep us updated!

 

caver01

Well-known member
ok, so i have an update. It’s good news and bad, which is frustrating how the video keeps evolving.

I was able to bridge the pad for pin 2 on the ASC to restore the trace no problem. It worked great, stayed nice and flat, and buzzed cleanly back to A(5). This was the spot highlighted in green below. I decided to put the ASC back on and it went ok but I could not resolve a bridge between pins 27 and 28 on the corner. Then I realized the bridge was a copper pad from pin 28 (highlighted in red below). I was able to get it off without much trouble, so pad 28 is a goner. Maybe it wont matter in the long run because that pad does not have a trace that goes anywhere. The schematic says ATEST, so hopefully I got lucky.

396800E9-8869-4F61-AEF1-1E482257C8CA.jpeg

Good idea on the socket. I guess I could have waited.

I booted the system despite the jailhouse video to test audio. No chime, abbreviated alerts sounds, and the simple beep still locks the computer—so no change. I pulled the board to double check my work, tried again and could not boot! I am now getting what looks like ones and zeros, but this is probably the simasimac pattern with the jailhouse overlay. See below:

C7D29836-453C-4427-AE30-3C09976DE677.jpeg

I tried booting without RAM, swapped SIMMs, even pulled the ROM and the screen does not change. At this point, I stopped and took a break. It feels discouraging to learn so much about the board, to test so many connections, FIND a broken trace, only to take steps backward.

Returning to the bench I decided to clean up some of my previous work and inspect a few things. I removed, cleaned and resoldered C1, C4, C6, C12 and C13. I have already done continuity checks for these, but my soldering was a little messy and a few caps were not straight. Having done that it was getting late so I booted one last time to get the screenshot. Maybe it is my imagination, but I noticed after improving these capacitors that the video is not as shimmery as it has been. It seems more solid and does not wiggle as much.

 
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davidg5678

Well-known member
I was able to get it off without much trouble, so pad 28 is a goner. Maybe it wont matter in the long run because that pad does not have a trace that goes anywhere. The schematic says ATEST, so hopefully I got lucky.
I cannot see anything connected to the pad highlighted in red. It probably was just an extra pin included in the chip package. If this is correct (others please correct me if I'm wrong) you should be fine without it.

 

techknight

Well-known member
That is definitely a strange fault. You might be in over your head on this one. 

The fact that your not getting a chime or any startup at all indicates there is a severe issue somewhere that may be unrelated to the video circuit. 

Id troubleshoot the no-start issue before working on the video stage, as you could be chasing a red herring. 

 

caver01

Well-known member
I can see moving forward with troubleshooting audio. The video setback—I could address that too, right? One thing at a time. But this boot issue now has to be the priority now if I am to make any more progress.

I think maybe I will give the entire board a good soapy soak, rinse and dry. I did it once early on during the re-cap, but I don’t think I did a very thorough job as I continued to find electrolyte. It cannot hurt at this point.

 

PotatoFi

Well-known member
I did check for that probing adjacent pins along each side. It did boot once after replacing the ASC.
Hrm. I wonder what changed between the first and second boot attempt.

I can see moving forward with troubleshooting audio. The video setback—I could address that too, right? One thing at a time. But this boot issue now has to be the priority now if I am to make any more progress.

I think maybe I will give the entire board a good soapy soak, rinse and dry. I did it once early on during the re-cap, but I don’t think I did a very thorough job as I continued to find electrolyte. It cannot hurt at this point.
A good wash and thorough dry isn't a bad idea. Since I wash using tap water, I always use the air compressor to blast all of the water out from under the IC's.

Don't give up, I know that it looks grim right now, but keep going! I felt pretty hopeless about mine several times, but finally got it going!

 

caver01

Well-known member
One change was the fact that this system originally had 8mb of RAM, but over time, I have removed the SIMMs and ROM to clean the board, and most of my troubleshooting has been with only 4mb on board. One thing I did was add the other 4 sticks. It was the first thing I thought of that might be an issue, but re-seating, cleaning, re-arranging—nothing seems to make a difference. In total, the RAM is 8 sticks, two different versions, but all 1mb. I have kept similar ones together within each bank.

As of now, the board is warming/drying after a thorough wash, but I do not have high hopes yet. Maybe I washed away something that was bridging somewhere like a solder bead. It is possible, but I am not holding my breath.

The screen looks like vertical chains, so to add a little levity, I am calling this syndrome “Chains Of Love” which is an extension of “Jailhouse Mac”.

 

caver01

Well-known member
After a very nice clean and a good warm up in the oven I have a clean, dry logic board that still exhibits “Chains of Love”.

 

caver01

Well-known member
After a long break (and a few new hobbies in the interim) I am back with an update and hoping to get some more advice for next steps.

After removing the ASC, cleaning, and resoldering it (twice) I am confident in that work after a thorough inspection. Given the system still showed the odd vertical chain links, I decided with nothing to lose to try replacing some ICs from the cap leak area. So, I replaced UE8, followed by UF8, UG8, and finally UA8, UB8, UC8, UD8.

Maybe this was overkill, but I noticed an immediate change after the first chip UE8. The system now displays the following:

529782F0-B72C-4CE6-AE75-A0A77E249B23.jpeg

Replacing the other chips had no effect, but I do think UE8 was part of the problem. Now, this screen looks like a lot of examples I have seen posted where the computer needs to be recapped. Does anyone recognize this? Of course, my board is already recapped, but maybe the caps are damaged and I should try again? Seems like progress, as the system no longer displays “chains”. Thoughts?
 

caver01

Well-known member
Replying to my own message here. . . Having done some searches across this forum, I am learning that what I see is the good old “simasimac” screen now, which has multiple root causes, but the general consensus for diagnosing it is that the CPU cannot communicate with the ROM, so there is maybe a broken trace/via between these, and the most common advice seems to be to buzz al of the address lines between CPU and ROM, check the ROM contacts (and the ROM itself, though it WAS working). There are a few examples of fixes related to shorts near the recap work on C8-C10, but most descriptions mention the address lines and the muxers. SO. . . looks like I need to print out and assemble another schematic!

I suppose it is one step forward, another step back, but I take a little comfort in the fact that at least this symptom has known troubleshooting directions to take, while the “chains” on screen had folks a bit stumped. This is at least a more common problem.
 

caver01

Well-known member
Ok, so I don’t want to JINX anything, but this morning, I pulled my ROM out and inspected it—looks fine—then carefully put it back in. I glanced around the bench knowing I would need to clean some things up a bit to embark on a marathon continuity test session. On a whim, I decided to try powering it on again. . . and WHOAH! Got a chime! WHOAH got the gray desktop and mouse cursor! I can’t believe it. I might have had issues with the ROM seating poorly or at least not making good contact.

So, I might also have a heat-related issue, as my bench is in the garage and it is a little cooler now than it was last night. In any case, even if I have the problem return, at least I know I have what appears to be good, working components. I cannot even believe this. . . So pleased. Happy Thanksgiving to me I guess.

Later, I will put the board back into the case and see if I can repeat the success, do some full boot and burn in, but feeling better now. What’s more is that this is the first time I think I have EVER heard a boot chime. I guess resoldering the ASC worked too.

This may be the end of the story, as I can now move on to building RaSCSI and other fun stuff, but I did want to say thanks to everyone who added input, especially @PotatoFi who encouraged me not to give up here and elsewhere.
 

caver01

Well-known member
I got a little excited too soon, as when i put the logic board back into the case, the SCSI drive failed to load. Booted fine from floppy. I did some testing with SCSI Probe and i can see the ID of the HDD, and the light flashes like it tries to mount, but it does not acknowledge there is anything there. Just the ID is highlighted.

so, i started testing all of the lines from the SCSI chip. it was slow going but i found the problem. No continuity on pin 20 which is D31. Tested by soldering a wire to pin 20 and ran the wire down and through a little hole in the board by the CPU and over to D31 which is conveniently a corner pin. it looks ugly and i would like to find a better bodge, but it worked. She booted right up. This also solved a weird sound distortion issue.
 

Byrd

Well-known member
Nice work @caver01 - I've three SE/30 boards in need of love - all with the same issues but separately - one dead SCSI, one dead sound (crash on any sound made), one bad ROM slot. Put em together = one working SE/30 possibly; but like you all need TLC and should hopefully get them working.
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
Isn't that just a kicker? Simple solution all along. Threads like this need to be documented!
 

caver01

Well-known member
Thanks for the acknowledgement. I ended up making a much better bodge between the SCSI chip and VIA1 chip (shorter wire, easier connection point near the C11 axial cap). I really think this was a combination of problems for my SE/30 and I am somewhat amazed I was able to work through it:
  • corroded trace alongside one of the axial caps
  • electrolyte under the ASC causing sound issues (removed, cleaned, reinstalled ASC)
  • Bad UE8 chip (replaced)
  • Broken D31 trace somewhere from SCSI chip (bodge wire to VIA1)
  • Poor ROM SIMM seating (remove/replace/adjust)
  • recap all electrolytics, cleanup
  • Replaced battery with a CR2032 holder
 

caver01

Well-known member
This has been a fun learning experience and confidence builder. I would definitely take on another SE/30 if I had one. The saga will continue now as I try to get RaSCSI working, going to replace the fan with something a lot quieter, probably recap the analog board eventually.
 
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