SE/30 buzzing sound every 10-12 seconds

[djc6]

I picked up an SE/30 today off facebook marketplace, my first compact mac! I've done a lot of repairs on Commodore 64s, VIC-20s and 128s in the past - this is my first mac restoration project.

It's booted once off the internal HDD, but boots reliably off floppy emu. I don't yet own a torx driver - it will be here tomorrow to check out the internals and remove battery. There is no startup chime which I presume means bad caps.

There is a buzzing sound every 10-12 seconds, seems loudest near the power supply switch but its unclear w/o opening it. What could this be? Attached is mp3 file of recording, buzz can be heard three times in ~28 second recording. Thanks!

 

[Phipli]

I picked up an SE/30 today off facebook marketplace, my first compact mac! I've done a lot of repairs on Commodore 64s, VIC-20s and 128s in the past - this is my first mac restoration project.

It's booted once off the internal HDD, but boots reliably off floppy emu. I don't yet own a torx driver - it will be here tomorrow to check out the internals and remove battery. There is no startup chime which I presume means bad caps.

There is a buzzing sound every 10-12 seconds, seems loudest near the power supply switch but its unclear w/o opening it. What could this be? Attached is mp3 file of recording, buzz can be heard three times in ~28 second recording. Thanks!

If I had to guess I'd say that is the hard disk or floppy drive head hitting against the bump stop while trying to recalibrate. Certainly sounds like some kind of drive head.

 

[smrieck511]

Sounds like the hard drive to me. If so, that would be good news because you'll probably want to replace that with a bluescsi or similar anyway.

If it's booting, things can't be too bad in there. Just get that PRAM battery out, clean it up and replace the logic board capacitors.

You'll want to recap the analog board as well, and those are very easy to do comparatively. No reason not to.

recapping the power supply is another good idea, but feels trickier to do as components are tucked in closer. I've gotten lucky three out of three times with those knock on wood.

recap the floppy drive? Some people do. I never worried about it but I used the cleaning video from Adrian's Digital basement, which is the best instruction how to get it back to perfect working condition.

Good luck and congrats on what appears to be a healthy SE 30!

 

[Phipli]

If it's booting, things can't be too bad in there. Just get that PRAM battery out, clean it up and replace the logic board capacitors.

They mentioned sound not working so there is some PCB damage from the caps. A bit of repair needed, but likely not the worst.

You'll want to recap the analog board as well, and those are very easy to do comparatively. No reason not to.

This is generally something to do on condition. The analogue boards cause less damage and last longer. I haven't done only of mine yet. It's expensive to just do as preventive maintenance and it is generally a good idea not to touch things that are and will continue to work in case you have an accident.

Obviously very different with the logic board, caps and battery must be replaced as a matter of urgency.

 

[smrieck511]

They mentioned sound not working so there is some PCB damage from the caps. A bit of repair needed, but likely not the worst.

This is generally something to do on condition. The analogue boards cause less damage and last longer. I haven't done only of mine yet. It's expensive to just do as preventive maintenance and it is generally a good idea not to touch things that are and will continue to work in case you have an accident.

Obviously very different with the logic board, caps and battery must be replaced as a matter of urgency.

They mentioned sound not working so there is some PCB damage from the caps. A bit of repair needed, but likely not the worst.

This is generally something to do on condition. The analogue boards cause less damage and last longer. I haven't done only of mine yet. It's expensive to just do as preventive maintenance and it is generally a good idea not to touch things that are and will continue to work in case you have an accident.

Obviously very different with the logic board, caps and battery must be replaced as a matter of urgency.

OK to each their own but I say if you've got the skills to replace the logic board surface mounts, there's no reason to not replace the 30+ year-old caps on the analog board. All the components are pretty far away from each other comparatively and JDW's mouser cart is about $20 i think.

I would have an (im sure irrational) fear that some leaking electrolyte from the analog board could somehow get on the logic board.
.

 

[Phipli]

there's no reason to not replace the 30+ year-old caps on the analog board

We'll... Wasting money replacing parts with no fault? That's a reason.

 

[smrieck511]

We'll... Wasting money replacing parts with no fault? That's a reason.

well, again, just knowing you won't have to worry about it for another 15 or 20 years, at least… that's good enough for me. To each their own. I also just enjoy recapping those and find it the simplest part of a full restore. Surely there is a little bit of OCD going on in this hobby in general, it's part of the fun. I'm guilty.

 

[djc6]

Got my torx driver - happy to see the battery didn't leak! It was removed and put in outside trash after this photo was taken. Its original - has a Sept 1989 date code on it.

The capacitors have leaked I believe since dust is accumulating around them - I think its sticking to the electrolyte? I haven't come across any corroded traces - I plan on removing the caps and cleaning the board soon.

I am worried to see the dreaded all plastic SIMM slots - are there any fixes I can 3D print should I break one? Currently eight 256KB SIMMs are installed for total 2MB of RAM - so I do plan on upgrading those, so I'll have to remove at least four of them if not all of them.

 

[smrieck511]

Got my torx driver - happy to see the battery didn't leak! It was removed and put in outside trash after this photo was taken. Its original - has a Sept 1989 date code on it.

The capacitors have leaked I believe since dust is accumulating around them - I think its sticking to the electrolyte? I haven't come across any corroded traces - I plan on removing the caps and cleaning the board soon.

I am worried to see the dreaded all plastic SIMM slots - are there any fixes I can 3D print should I break one? Currently eight 256KB SIMMs are installed for total 2MB of RAM - so I do plan on upgrading those, so I'll have to remove at least four of them if not all of them.

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Very good news! Looks relatively clean. Yeah, be careful with the simm slots. Should one break, I know some people recommend using a little hot glue at the edge of the slot. UE8 looks pretty good and you said you have no video issues so that should be fine. Things do look a little funkier by the sony sound chips but I'd bet a cleaning and recap is all it needs.

 

[smrieck511]

Also and possibly most important, use 25v polymer tantalum capacitors rather than 16v.

JDW made a good video explanation of why this is a better idea but I can't find the link.

I used 25v polymer tantalums as he recommended and I've had no issues at all with my SE/30.

 

[djc6]

Also and possibly most important, use 25v polymer tantalum capacitors rather than 16v.

JDW made a good video explanation of why this is a better idea but I can't find the link.

I used 25v polymer tantalums as he recommended and I've had no issues at all with my SE/30.

Is ordering this kit the easiest? It mentions "2023-2-23 Update: For improved service life, kits now include 4x 47uF/25v polymer capacitors for C3, C4, C9, C10"

Macintosh SE/30 SMD Tantalum / Polymer / Axial Capacitor Main PCB Cap Kit SE30

<p>High temp, surface mount tantalum caps, polymer caps, and axial electrolytic capacitors for the Macintosh SE/30 main PCB.</p> <p><strong>2023-2-23 Update</strong>: For improved service life, kits now include 4x 47uF/25v polymer capacitors for C3, C4,

console5.com

I think you are referring to this thread: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/dont-use-16v-solid-tantalum-on-se-30-motherboards.37823/

The author talks about re-recapping the board with C3, C4, C9, C10 25v tanalums.

I'm more worried about picking the right parts than the soldering work!

 

[smrieck511]

Is ordering this kit the easiest? It mentions "2023-2-23 Update: For improved service life, kits now include 4x 47uF/25v polymer capacitors for C3, C4, C9, C10"

Macintosh SE/30 SMD Tantalum / Polymer / Axial Capacitor Main PCB Cap Kit SE30

<p>High temp, surface mount tantalum caps, polymer caps, and axial electrolytic capacitors for the Macintosh SE/30 main PCB.</p> <p><strong>2023-2-23 Update</strong>: For improved service life, kits now include 4x 47uF/25v polymer capacitors for C3, C4,

console5.com

I think you are referring to this thread: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/dont-use-16v-solid-tantalum-on-se-30-motherboards.37823/

The author talks about re-recapping the board with C3, C4, C9, C10 25v tanalums.

I'm more worried about picking the right parts than the soldering work!

That's the right link, yes. So go with 25v Polymer Tantalums (and that one little 50v)

Here's a link to what I used. These have been perfect.

https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=33371c761b

 

[djc6]

These have been perfect.

Where did you get your RAM?

 

[smrieck511]

Is ordering this kit the easiest? It mentions "2023-2-23 Update: For improved service life, kits now include 4x 47uF/25v polymer capacitors for C3, C4, C9, C10"

Macintosh SE/30 SMD Tantalum / Polymer / Axial Capacitor Main PCB Cap Kit SE30

<p>High temp, surface mount tantalum caps, polymer caps, and axial electrolytic capacitors for the Macintosh SE/30 main PCB.</p> <p><strong>2023-2-23 Update</strong>: For improved service life, kits now include 4x 47uF/25v polymer capacitors for C3, C4,

console5.com

I think you are referring to this thread: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/dont-use-16v-solid-tantalum-on-se-30-motherboards.37823/

The author talks about re-recapping the board with C3, C4, C9, C10 25v tanalums.

I'm more worried about picking the right parts than the soldering work!

Where did you get your RAM?

Filled it up with 8 of these (128mb). They've been great.

16MB OWC Memory Upgrade Module

Upgrade your Mac memory and save money by trading in the original factory memory chips. Includes a lifetime OWC warranty.

eshop.macsales.com

 

[smrieck511]

I'd recommend these also...

MacBatt CR2032 PRAM Apple Macintosh battery by Siliconinsider on Tindie

MacBatt CR2032 PRAM Lithium battery replacement for Apple Macintosh computers

www.tindie.com

Mac ROM-inator II | Big Mess o' Wires

www.bigmessowires.com

 

[smrieck511]

Not sure if you checked this out, but this saved four out of four disk drives for me.

 

[djc6]

This is generally something to do on condition. The analogue boards cause less damage and last longer. I haven't done only of mine yet. It's expensive to just do as preventive maintenance and it is generally a good idea not to touch things that are and will continue to work in case you have an accident.

What are your thoughts about recapping power supply? Mine is model Sony CR-44 - it looks within my skill level, but it also looks like a lot of work I saw a video somewhere I think of someone testing the power supply voltage from the DB19 external floppy connector I think - can't find it again.

 

[Phipli]

What are your thoughts about recapping power supply? Mine is model Sony CR-44 - it looks within my skill level, but it also looks like a lot of work I saw a video somewhere I think of someone testing the power supply voltage from the DB19 external floppy connector I think - can't find it again.

I did mine because I was loading one down a lot with expansion cards, and because of the very high cost of shipping, it made more sense to do them all at once.

Generally I'd leave them if I wasn't having problems. The original caps are good and long lived.

Generally bigger, through hole caps last better and can stay in spec for many decades. Failures occur in some models of PSU / analogue board due to cheaper parts or under-specified parts.

The SE/30 is pretty solid, unlike say... The IIsi PSU, LC PSUs, IIci, QuickSilvers, MDDs and the cursed Classic analogue boards.

Thinking about it... The SE / SE/30 Sony PSU might be the single most reliable Mac PSU... I haven't lost one out of the 6 I've worked on.

 

[djc6]

That's the right link, yes. So go with 25v Polymer Tantalums (and that one little 50v)

Here's a link to what I used. These have been perfect.

https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=33371c761b

Thanks for the list. Just curious why you picked those Polymer Tantalums over the ones suggested by JDW here. I'm mostly concerned about getting the spacing right and ease of soldering - I see the ones you selected appear to have a little more "contact" rolled up the side of the capacitor to have something to solder to - assuming the pictures are correct:

Don't use 16V SOLID Tantalum on SE/30 Motherboards

Hrm... I've recapped quite a few boards with 16v tantalum caps. I'm worried that trying to desolder them with an iron will be riskier than just running them. Has anyone seen a 16v tantalum cap on an SE/30 fail?

68kmla.org

 

[croissantking]

Also and possibly most important, use 25v polymer tantalum capacitors rather than 16v

A little confused here.

I thought tantalums were one kind of capacitor and polymers were another kind.

If when you refer to polymer tantalums, you mean the ones that come in tin cans similar to the electrolytics they replace, then these don’t need derating, i.e. you don’t need to substitute a 16v with a 25v.