-
Updated 2023-07-12: Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this follow-up post about our outage a week or so ago.
Recommend a support Mac for my Color Classic Mystic
- Thread starter mraroid
- Start date
In short: I'm lazy:
In long: It's just because 4.7 is what came on the eMac 2003 9.2.2 install CD I used to set up the machine.
I am largely completely uninterested in the idea of trying to force a machine from 1998 running software from 2002 onto the Web of 2019, so I don't usually bother running the most possibly fully patched browser on any given system, or with things like Classilla -- I've just got better things to do on those computers. The exception is generally if it's an installer file I've had hanging around for literally fifteen years, like my copy of IE 4.01 for 68k.
Having a browser around at all is helpful for downloads, and I forget whether it was Mac Garden or the other one that blocks old IE, so I have Netscape around as well.
Netscape 4.8 would be better, if I were setting up a 7.6.1 box I would probably use the 4.8 download off of system7today, but.
Just idly, my long standing favorite Classic/PPC browser is actually IE5 - it lasted longer if you were browsing this site on a late 68k or early PPC Mac in the super early 2000s, and ran more sites from roughly 2004-2007 with fewer errors than netscape, while still using less RAM than WaMCoM, but it's transfer speeds for downloads leaves a lot to be desired, and in a world where s7t, macgarden, and the vtools page are the only important web pages, it doesn't strike me as super important to waste a lot of RAM or time on something else, so Netscape it is.
This is something where it's tough to point at a single machine and go "that's the bridge machine!" -- for example, as I mentioned earlier, Macs needing 400k diskettes will need a bridge running 7.5.5 or earlier, to handle 400k diskettes, making a Beige unsuitable to those tasks.
It's part of why I think it's important to ask and think about what's actually being asked in each thread. Usually people aren't asking "what's the single best bridge machine" -- they're asking "what will work for my needs" - and in this case, since the OP has ethernet and TCP working, and mainly just wants something to run a slightly newer browser, I think the existing answers are reasonable.
(I'm doubling down on this specifically because I don't really think that OP should have to start a removable media collection, given that they've already got networking working.)
They could and if they wanted to, yeah, something with SCSI (or with internal/USB/Firewire versions of the drives they wanted to use available) would move higher up on the shopping list.
In long: It's just because 4.7 is what came on the eMac 2003 9.2.2 install CD I used to set up the machine.
I am largely completely uninterested in the idea of trying to force a machine from 1998 running software from 2002 onto the Web of 2019, so I don't usually bother running the most possibly fully patched browser on any given system, or with things like Classilla -- I've just got better things to do on those computers. The exception is generally if it's an installer file I've had hanging around for literally fifteen years, like my copy of IE 4.01 for 68k.
Having a browser around at all is helpful for downloads, and I forget whether it was Mac Garden or the other one that blocks old IE, so I have Netscape around as well.
Netscape 4.8 would be better, if I were setting up a 7.6.1 box I would probably use the 4.8 download off of system7today, but.
Just idly, my long standing favorite Classic/PPC browser is actually IE5 - it lasted longer if you were browsing this site on a late 68k or early PPC Mac in the super early 2000s, and ran more sites from roughly 2004-2007 with fewer errors than netscape, while still using less RAM than WaMCoM, but it's transfer speeds for downloads leaves a lot to be desired, and in a world where s7t, macgarden, and the vtools page are the only important web pages, it doesn't strike me as super important to waste a lot of RAM or time on something else, so Netscape it is.
Notably, this thread is about a bridge system for a single specific Mac which has been specified as an '040 with a lot of RAM and Ethernet -- Itself, a reasonable bridge for the oldest of Macs.
This is something where it's tough to point at a single machine and go "that's the bridge machine!" -- for example, as I mentioned earlier, Macs needing 400k diskettes will need a bridge running 7.5.5 or earlier, to handle 400k diskettes, making a Beige unsuitable to those tasks.
It's part of why I think it's important to ask and think about what's actually being asked in each thread. Usually people aren't asking "what's the single best bridge machine" -- they're asking "what will work for my needs" - and in this case, since the OP has ethernet and TCP working, and mainly just wants something to run a slightly newer browser, I think the existing answers are reasonable.
(I'm doubling down on this specifically because I don't really think that OP should have to start a removable media collection, given that they've already got networking working.)
They could and if they wanted to, yeah, something with SCSI (or with internal/USB/Firewire versions of the drives they wanted to use available) would move higher up on the shopping list.
One more thought: @mraroid - have you tried to go to macgarden in Netscape 4.0.8? On my system (granted, this is PPC) it does load -- it's ugly, but it loads fine and I can download things.
If you don't have it, get a copy of Stuffit Expander or Deluxe 5 or newer, which can generally decompress and open anything on Mac Garden.
If you don't have it, get a copy of Stuffit Expander or Deluxe 5 or newer, which can generally decompress and open anything on Mac Garden.
mraroid
Well-known member
Cory5412...
Thank you for your post. I could connect to Mac gardens, but not able to move beyond the first screen, if got that far. But I was in Ecuador at the time, which may have been an issue. I had no trouble connecting to it in Ecuador with my windows 10 box. I will try again today and report back.
I am not so keen on using a laptop as my bridge computer. It is far easier for me to fix hardware issues and upgrades in a desktop.
Is this a good example example of a beige G3:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163485159541?ViewItem=&item=163485159541
and this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Macintosh-G3-Beige-Desktop-300-MHZ-OS-8-1-TESTED-WORKING/153319690580?hash=item23b290d154:g:FUAAAOSwkQhcJZ2S:rk:2
f:0I found this locally:
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/sys/d/portland-g3-mac-macintosh-tower/6791107787.html
Check out how dirty the fan and the rest of the Mac is. The price is right. I also found this:
https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/sys/d/portland-apple-mac-pro-computer-hp/6788474155.html
All of those machines look fine. They should clean up fine.
I recommend against the one from Canada, just because it's so much money. The 266MHz G3 from Illinois is fine, you can easily upgrade the RAM on these things yourself, and the "slower" processor will still be fine.
The Blue G3 for $50 in Portland looks good, you'll probably want to pull it apart and clean it up. G3s can use ATX power supplies if that one ends up having problems, you can make or buy an adapter using the information here: http://atxg4.com
The Mac Pro is fine too. It should run 10.5 with no problems.
I need to do some testing with 10.5 myself to be super sure, but if you want a Mac Pro, it can't hurt anyway.
I recommend against the one from Canada, just because it's so much money. The 266MHz G3 from Illinois is fine, you can easily upgrade the RAM on these things yourself, and the "slower" processor will still be fine.
The Blue G3 for $50 in Portland looks good, you'll probably want to pull it apart and clean it up. G3s can use ATX power supplies if that one ends up having problems, you can make or buy an adapter using the information here: http://atxg4.com
The Mac Pro is fine too. It should run 10.5 with no problems.
I need to do some testing with 10.5 myself to be super sure, but if you want a Mac Pro, it can't hurt anyway.
That's not untrue, but unless 10.4 is known to be better at AppleTalk specifically, there's no good reason to avoid 10.5 in favor of it on an Intel-based Mac,
(Actually, per http://applefool.com/se30/#afpnetwork it looks like 10.4 might be a better target for system 7.5.3-7.6.1, so, 10.4 is better for appleshare compatibility, whoops. and 10.2 might be the best if you need "AppleTalk" specifically, I haven't tried installing newer OT/AS onto 7.1 or 7.5.0/7.5.1)
With that in mind, it couldn't hurt to pull back to things that can boot OS 9, just to be completely certain you get what you need, especially if you do intend to run the LC575 release of system 7.1.
(Actually, per http://applefool.com/se30/#afpnetwork it looks like 10.4 might be a better target for system 7.5.3-7.6.1, so, 10.4 is better for appleshare compatibility, whoops. and 10.2 might be the best if you need "AppleTalk" specifically, I haven't tried installing newer OT/AS onto 7.1 or 7.5.0/7.5.1)
With that in mind, it couldn't hurt to pull back to things that can boot OS 9, just to be completely certain you get what you need, especially if you do intend to run the LC575 release of system 7.1.
Last edited by a moderator:
mraroid
Well-known member
I am so happy it was suggested to try again to get into Macintoshgarden with Netscape 4.08. I was able to get in with out any issues. What a surprise. I even remembered my password.
I down loaded one app (iClock). The down load speed was much faster then I though it would be. But moving from page to page was quite slow. I mean really slow. Looks like i will need that bridge Mac after all.
mraroid
I down loaded one app (iClock). The down load speed was much faster then I though it would be. But moving from page to page was quite slow. I mean really slow. Looks like i will need that bridge Mac after all.
mraroid
LaPorta
Well-known member
Throwing in my two cents, I use my iMac G4 running 10.4 to transfer files between that and my PowerTower Pro running 8.6 using AppleTalk. If I ever have any compatibility issues when the PT Pro is in 7.5.5, I just use the iMac with OS 9. It can be a pain, but restarting to change the OS isn't the biggest issue. I would say a 10.4/OS 9 compatible Mac is a good way to go. 10.5 with intel isn't bad, but there is no OS 9 option just in case.
mraroid
Well-known member
LaPorta and all....
I found this:
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/sys/d/portland-g3-mac-macintosh-tower/6791107787.html
It is the 400Mhg model. Filthy I know, but I can clean it up. Wiki had this to say about it:
The Power Macintosh G3 (Blue and White) (codenamed Yosemite) was introduced in January 1999, replacing the Beige Mini Tower model, with which it shared the name and processor architecture but little else. It is the first Power Macintosh model to include the New World ROM, and the last with ADB port. 300 MHz, 350 MHz and 400 MHz models were introduced with a price range of $1,599 USD - $2,999 USD.[20]
Though still based on the PowerPC G3 architecture, the Blue and White was a totally new design. It was the first new Power Macintosh model after the release of the iMac, and shared the iMac's blue-and-white color scheme. Inside the enclosure, the logic board is mounted on a folding "door", which swings down onto the desk for tool-free access to all the internal components.[20]
A new design for the keyboard and mouse were introduced that match the enclosure. The keyboard was criticized in MacWorld's review of the G3 as feeling "cheap compared with the huge Apple keyboard of old" and the removal of several keys. The Apple USB Mouse, previously included with the iMac, was also reviewed poorly, noting that "many users will find it unacceptable: because of the round design, it's impossible to tell the top of the mouse from the bottom by touch."[20]
The Blue and White line was revised in June 1999; the 300 MHz model was dropped and a new 450 MHz model was introduced at a $2,999 USD price point.[21]
Early Blue and White units shipped with Mac OS 8.5.1, while later revisions shipped with 8.6. The latest version of Mac OS that can be run on this model is Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger.
***************************************
The wiki says "New World Roms", which I do not understand. A non issue for me?
The price is right.
Thoughts?
mraroid
I found this:
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/sys/d/portland-g3-mac-macintosh-tower/6791107787.html
It is the 400Mhg model. Filthy I know, but I can clean it up. Wiki had this to say about it:
The Power Macintosh G3 (Blue and White) (codenamed Yosemite) was introduced in January 1999, replacing the Beige Mini Tower model, with which it shared the name and processor architecture but little else. It is the first Power Macintosh model to include the New World ROM, and the last with ADB port. 300 MHz, 350 MHz and 400 MHz models were introduced with a price range of $1,599 USD - $2,999 USD.[20]
Though still based on the PowerPC G3 architecture, the Blue and White was a totally new design. It was the first new Power Macintosh model after the release of the iMac, and shared the iMac's blue-and-white color scheme. Inside the enclosure, the logic board is mounted on a folding "door", which swings down onto the desk for tool-free access to all the internal components.[20]
A new design for the keyboard and mouse were introduced that match the enclosure. The keyboard was criticized in MacWorld's review of the G3 as feeling "cheap compared with the huge Apple keyboard of old" and the removal of several keys. The Apple USB Mouse, previously included with the iMac, was also reviewed poorly, noting that "many users will find it unacceptable: because of the round design, it's impossible to tell the top of the mouse from the bottom by touch."[20]
The Blue and White line was revised in June 1999; the 300 MHz model was dropped and a new 450 MHz model was introduced at a $2,999 USD price point.[21]
Early Blue and White units shipped with Mac OS 8.5.1, while later revisions shipped with 8.6. The latest version of Mac OS that can be run on this model is Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger.
***************************************
The wiki says "New World Roms", which I do not understand. A non issue for me?
The price is right.
Thoughts?
mraroid
mraroid
Well-known member
I ended up buying the B&W G3 for $50.00. I took it home and opened it up outside my house. It is the most dirty computer I have ever seen. I used 3 cans of compressed air just get the top layer of dirt and dust off. It needs a top to bottom cleaning.
I have enclosed a photo. It show a fan in this Mac. When I power up the computer the fan in the power supply runs, but the one in the photo does not. I have only observed it with the door open. Should this fan in the photo be running all the time?
I have two bright orange CDs called iMac. One is a install disk, and the other is a Software installer. They seem to new for this Blue and White G3. Wrong disks?
I ordered a new battery and a solid state hard drive from OWC.
The B&W will not boot to the hard drives, but it will boot to the orange CDs. I tried to do disk repair. It says "Problem -invalid index key, 4, 6926". Disk repair will take some time, but then it says it has repaired the disk. But when I run disk repair again, it shows the same problem. I am the 4th try now.
mraroid
jack
I have enclosed a photo. It show a fan in this Mac. When I power up the computer the fan in the power supply runs, but the one in the photo does not. I have only observed it with the door open. Should this fan in the photo be running all the time?
I have two bright orange CDs called iMac. One is a install disk, and the other is a Software installer. They seem to new for this Blue and White G3. Wrong disks?
I ordered a new battery and a solid state hard drive from OWC.
The B&W will not boot to the hard drives, but it will boot to the orange CDs. I tried to do disk repair. It says "Problem -invalid index key, 4, 6926". Disk repair will take some time, but then it says it has repaired the disk. But when I run disk repair again, it shows the same problem. I am the 4th try now.
mraroid
jack
mraroid
Well-known member
I removed the assembly and the fan. It was quite dirty. It would spin just fine by hand. The movement seemed OK. I cleaned it and sprayed some contact cleaner in the inter fan assembly and then some can compressed air. Air dried and re assembled. When I first boot, the fan runs for about a second and then stops. Are you sure it is a 24/7 fan? It looks to be a standard size so I can look for one and swap it out. I need to see if i have 12 V going to the fan after boot I guess. The vent holes were quite dirty and the fan could have failed because it just could not draw very much air.....
I saw a very clean Blue & white G3 on ebay for about $100.00. I am probably gong to spend $50 or more on can compressed air and contact cleaner. Should have bough the clean one I guess. :-(
I am moving this discussion to the G3 group forum as I am wondering off my Color Classic Mystic. Please join me. I have a lot of G3 questions.
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/56152-help-with-power-macintosh-g3-400-blue-white/
Thanks to everyone for all the good help.
mraroid
I saw a very clean Blue & white G3 on ebay for about $100.00. I am probably gong to spend $50 or more on can compressed air and contact cleaner. Should have bough the clean one I guess. :-(
I am moving this discussion to the G3 group forum as I am wondering off my Color Classic Mystic. Please join me. I have a lot of G3 questions.
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/56152-help-with-power-macintosh-g3-400-blue-white/
Thanks to everyone for all the good help.
mraroid
just.in.time
Well-known member
Ah okay, makes sense.
Totally fair, I have a few systems running certain things certain ways for the exact same reason.
Worth noting: I don't actually think Netscape 4.8 is buggy and for someone less lazy than I am, it would almost certainly be a fine upgrade. S7T recommends it for any PowerPC system,
Long long ago at the very tail end of when it was reasonable to use Mac OS 9 on the Internet day-to-day (probably 2004 or 2005), I used WaMCoM Mozilla 1.3.1, which I still have on vtools somewhere, and I just haven't bothered since.
Long long ago at the very tail end of when it was reasonable to use Mac OS 9 on the Internet day-to-day (probably 2004 or 2005), I used WaMCoM Mozilla 1.3.1, which I still have on vtools somewhere, and I just haven't bothered since.
