Recently Found Lisa - I.D. Needed

[Master_D]

Hello, new to the community. I found this old Mackintosh, I think a Lisa 2 or Mackintosh XL. It doesn't have a keyboard or mouse unfortunately, but seems to have an expansion board of some kind inside. Can anyone help identify it

I would like to clean it up and get it going, but I don't plan to spend thousands on original accessories... is there a modern mouse / keyboard, or a reasonably priced reproduction I could get to test it? Will also need a power cable as there is nothing with it - are any power cables that size that fit going to be ok, or it needs a specific power cable?

Thanks, I assume it's a relatively generic machine but would like to see if I can get it going. What would be the best approach to restoration, cleaning and any dumb moves to avoid for the best chance of getting it going and not frying it straight away?

Cheers, D~

 

[stepleton]

I don't have time to write very much right now, but what you have is a Lisa 2/10 (you can tell from the battery-less I/O board and the three ports on the motherboard). A parallel port expansion card is fitted. It would be nice to see what's behind the front bezel --- I'd be curious to see if there's a 10 MB Widget hard drive in there or if an 800K disk drive upgrade has been performed.

It would also be nice to take off the top cover and look down into the CRT cavity to see if a "square pixel mod" has been performed.

You don't need a special power cable, but if you are in North America or Japan (or a few other places), beware that your power supply wants 220-240V mains power.

There are some options for adapting modern keyboards/mice for working with a Lisa, but I don't have those links handy at the moment.

Congrats on your new machine!

 

[Master_D]

Amazing, thanks for your reply! I’m based in England so that should be no problem with the power supply then, I will use one from a PlayStation or something.

I will post some pictures as I take it apart. It’s going to be a slow project that’s for sure, but without a mouse and a keyboard, would it be safe to plug it in with a power cable and turn it on to see what happens? Without any peripherals would have to just turn it off again - any risks in not shutting it down properly..?

I’m really pleased to have a restoration project to take into the next decade, will be cool to see it working. Thanks again!

 

[bibilit]

Hi, a Macintosh Mouse can be used, but those are getting scarce nowadays, as they are the ones from the Macintosh 128/512 and Plus units.

keyboard in not common with another model, and was made country coded (IIRC a french keyboard for instance will work in any Lisa; but will display a French layout) moreover, it was designed by Keytronic and with a foam/mylar keypad contacts (and those are prone to failure)

IIRC the Lisa display an error code if no keyboard is connected.

 

[pizzigri]

Congratulations on your find, im so envious right now!

 

[LaPorta]

Where did you "find" this...that's insane!

 

[stepleton]

I will post some pictures as I take it apart. It’s going to be a slow project that’s for sure, but without a mouse and a keyboard, would it be safe to plug it in with a power cable and turn it on to see what happens? Without any peripherals would have to just turn it off again - any risks in not shutting it down properly..?

In the abstract it's perfectly fine to power on a Lisa without a mouse and keyboard.

For a first power-up I would do a careful inspection behind the back, top, and front panels. The Lisa has a highly modular design: you can remove the logic boards, the power supply, and the disk cage in the front of the machine without tools (you only have to loosen some captive thumbscrews). So I would take those things out and give them a careful looking-over. I suspect most things will appear cosmetically fine.

If you have a hard drive fitted, I would unplug its power cable and its data ribbon cable before powering on the Lisa for the first time. Lisa hard drives are notoriously tricky to revive, and many people simply replace them with a modern solid-state emulator. We can address the hard drive later.

With that done, I would try powering on the Lisa. Check YouTube for Lisa power-up/booting videos for an idea of what normal operation looks like. If something seems amiss, or once you are satisfied with the operation of the machine, it's safe to cut the power. As you observe, you will not be able to do very much with the computer without any input devices.

Note that the Lisa has interlock switches that aim to prevent you from operating the computer with the front or back covers removed. You will need to restore the covers before attempting to power the machine on, or you can defeat the interlocks with a piece of cardboard/a cotton bud/something else handy.

Your Lisa power supply almost certainly contains some RIFA safety capacitors that are either failed or about to fail. As long as you're on YouTube already, search for "RIFA capacitor" to find people yammering about what that's all about. A failure is hard to miss: you will observe pungent smoke coming out of your power supply. Perhaps incredibly, this will not affect the operation of the machine itself, but it will smell terrible and and leave a mess. Just remain calm and cut the power. Note that as long as the computer is plugged into the mains, RIFA capacitors can fail and smoke up the room, even when the system is off!

You will need to replace these capacitors soon, or as a temporary fix, simply remove them from the power supply. But I wouldn't let RIFAs stop me from a quick power-on test: if they go they go, but it's just bad luck and not that big a deal.

It is nice to learn about another Lisa in England. My two are here in London, and IIRC the first of the recent crop of hobbyist Apple Lisa clones was completed here, too.

 

[cheesestraws]

Agreed with all that: if the RIFAs go, the worst you'll get is an appalling smell. It won't damage the machine.

There are multiple options for using more modern keyboards and mice, but it's pointless to spend too much energy on those until you've seen whether the thing works at all .

Echoing that it's nice to hear about another Lisa in the UK!

 

[TheCorruptedBit]

a Macintosh Mouse can be used, but those are getting scarce nowadays, as they are the ones from the Macintosh 128/512 and Plus units.

Scarce, but not unobtainable - there's a guy on eBay selling NOS Macintosh mice in quantities up to 40 per purchase, and he has at least 80 mice still in storage. It's also possible to bid low on an individual mouse or shoot an offer for a better deal. That doesn't solve the problem of the keyboard, but at least there's a way to still get a mouse

 

[Master_D]

Where did you "find" this...that's insane!

Genuinely found it. I was picking up a freecycle wardrobe at a house that was being cleared out. Spotted this old monitor that was heading for the dump. Offered to take it away as I like old computer bits and would see if I could get it going - luckily enough, it is what it is I love old computers so will try not to break it and get it going again. It's in loft storage for now until I have somewhere safe to work on it, and find a keyboard and mouse which sounds like it will be a bit of a nightmare..

 

[Master_D]

In the abstract it's perfectly fine to power on a Lisa without a mouse and keyboard.

For a first power-up I would do a careful inspection behind the back, top, and front panels. The Lisa has a highly modular design: you can remove the logic boards, the power supply, and the disk cage in the front of the machine without tools (you only have to loosen some captive thumbscrews). So I would take those things out and give them a careful looking-over. I suspect most things will appear cosmetically fine.

If you have a hard drive fitted, I would unplug its power cable and its data ribbon cable before powering on the Lisa for the first time. Lisa hard drives are notoriously tricky to revive, and many people simply replace them with a modern solid-state emulator. We can address the hard drive later.

With that done, I would try powering on the Lisa. Check YouTube for Lisa power-up/booting videos for an idea of what normal operation looks like. If something seems amiss, or once you are satisfied with the operation of the machine, it's safe to cut the power. As you observe, you will not be able to do very much with the computer without any input devices.

Note that the Lisa has interlock switches that aim to prevent you from operating the computer with the front or back covers removed. You will need to restore the covers before attempting to power the machine on, or you can defeat the interlocks with a piece of cardboard/a cotton bud/something else handy.

Your Lisa power supply almost certainly contains some RIFA safety capacitors that are either failed or about to fail. As long as you're on YouTube already, search for "RIFA capacitor" to find people yammering about what that's all about. A failure is hard to miss: you will observe pungent smoke coming out of your power supply. Perhaps incredibly, this will not affect the operation of the machine itself, but it will smell terrible and and leave a mess. Just remain calm and cut the power. Note that as long as the computer is plugged into the mains, RIFA capacitors can fail and smoke up the room, even when the system is off!

You will need to replace these capacitors soon, or as a temporary fix, simply remove them from the power supply. But I wouldn't let RIFAs stop me from a quick power-on test: if they go they go, but it's just bad luck and not that big a deal.

It is nice to learn about another Lisa in England. My two are here in London, and IIRC the first of the recent crop of hobbyist Apple Lisa clones was completed here, too.

Thank you for the detailed instructions. Apologies for the slow approach to this, I want to give the project the time and care it deserves so will bump the thread when I am in a position to carefully follow the steps described, open a window, and plug her in! I'm so glad I read this might happen and not just plug it in to see what would happen which is a pretty big temptation it does look in quite good order cosmetically so hope it might spin up. I will be back before plugging anything in and document the first attempt here too. Thanks all!

 

[stepleton]

Good luck! We'll be here when you're ready.

 

[RepairManiac]

Awesome save and score!!!!
It's the only Apple machine that I don't remember coming through our shop. Has to be rare as hens teeth.

The knowledge and love for these old Apple computers on here never ceases to amaze me! WOW