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Quesse Mac SE '020 accelerator

JC8080

Well-known member
Has anyone seen a manual or factory driver for this board?

I recently made an impulse buy and picked a Quesse '020 16mhz accelerator in unknown condition. After a bit of fiddling I got it up and running smoothly. I had never heard of Quesse before, and I can find zero information online about this particular board. I have found a couple posts and photos of the '030 version, but not the '020. The boards look identical, except the '030 has a couple more chips. This board has a couple bodges, so I think it's probably a pretty early version.

When I first got it I installed it with no RAM on the accelerator, I didn't expect this to work but figured I would try anyways. As expected it did not work, I just got a sad Mac. I installed 4x 1mb SIMMs on the accelerator, held my breath, and it booted! I opened Tattle Tech and it said the machine had an '020 running at 3mhz. Not unusual for a board without a driver. I downloaded all the drivers I could find that I thought might work with this board, and the only one I found that would work was the ExSys SE driver. GemStart did not work, despite the fact the ExSys driver is supposed to be a modified GemStart driver.

A couple quirks with the driver... The first time I booted with the driver I could instantly tell it was much faster. I opened Tattle Tech and saw the CPU speed was 16mhz, as expected. This is where things got a bit odd. I re-booted the machine and I got an error on boot that said I did not have a math co-processor installed. Hard to argue with a fact. I didn't have a 68881 around, but I had a 68882 so I installed that. Tried again, and it booted fine. I checked the control panel and all four options were enabled - Use FPU for SANE, instruction cache, data cache, and load ROM to RAM. When I tried opening Tattle Tech it crashed, I think it was a "bus error". I restarted and tried Speedometer 3.06. Speedometer showed the CPU as a '030 16mhz, not an '020. I restarted a couple more times, and when I checked the control panel now only the first two options were available, the last two were greyed out. Odd. I opened Tattle Tech, and now it correctly showed the CPU as a '020 16mhz. It was smooth sailing after that.

Today I tried GemStart 2.1 again since I had just read a post by @Phipli where he said the ExSys driver was a modified GemStart driver. I thought maybe I had made a mistake the first time around, but no, the machine crashed on boot again with the GemStart driver, saying FPU not installed. I re-installed the ExSys driver, and again all four control panel options were enabled, and Speedometer 3.06 showed the CPU as a '030. I restarted, and now all was right again, the CPU correctly shows as an '020. It seems once the control panel gets settled in, things work smoothly, at least as much as I have used it so far. Unfortunately I had run Speedometer during one of the odd "fake '030" boots, and Speedometer crashed, corrupting my machine records file. So I don't have any comparisons to post at the moment. (EDIT: added a benchmark against a stock SE/30)

Anyways I just thought I would share a couple photos, and ask if anyone knows anything about this particular board.
 

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ObeyDaleks

Well-known member
That control panel looks like a rebranded Gemstart, so it’s surprising it doesn’t work. Can you try with different RAM? I’ve had random bus errors and other weird issues with SE accelerators that had “seemingly good” RAM but the accelerator didn’t like.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
The card looks very much like a Total Systems Gemini. Note that earlier Total Systems cards attribute Quesse Engineering for the design. I suspect they were the designers that developed products for a large number of brands.

Extreme Systems took over support for Total Systems products after they went under. The Extreme Systems Vandal is a clone of the Total Systems Gemini Integra. If you open the ExSys control panel in ResEdit you can see references to GemStart, plus they use the same file creator code.

Surprised GemStart doesn't work but ExSys does. I suggest finding another version perhaps? Grab a copy of 2.0 or 2.2 if you can find one? I forget, does version 3 work in System 6?

Thats a point, what OS are you running?
 

Realitystorm

Well-known member
The card looks very much like a Total Systems Gemini. Note that earlier Total Systems cards attribute Quesse Engineering for the design. I suspect they were the designers that developed products for a large number of brands.
Hi Phipli do you have a source for the TSI and Quesse relationship? I thought I read that too but forgot to add the link to my site. All I can find is the TSI relationship with Novy https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_ljsEAAAAMBAJ/page/n135/mode/2up?q=Tsi
 
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Phipli

Well-known member
Hi Phipli do you have a source for the TSI and Quesse relationship? I thought I read that too but forgot to add the link to my site. All I can find is the TSI relationship with Novy https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_ljsEAAAAMBAJ/page/n135/mode/2up?q=Tsi
See the photos attached to this post :


You can see Total Systems boards with Quesse copyright.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Note that your card is listed as a Total Systems card in a number of places.



Here is a total systems branded one :

Local image for ease :
happy-new-owner-of-a-total-systems-25mhz-030-gemini-se-v0-wucjkyorxyu91.jpg
 
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JC8080

Well-known member
Interesting, thanks for digging up that info. I am currently running System 6.0.7, I'm not sure why I don't have 6.0.8 on there, that's an easy change to make. I haven't tried System 7 yet. Based on those photos I agree it is definitely the same board as the Total Systems Gemini. Knowing that, it's even more odd that it doesn't work with GemStart, at least v2.1. I did a quick online search yesterday and didn't find any other versions, though I didn't go too deep. I thought I had tried GemStart 3, but I will need to try again today. @Phipli I know you mentioned in another post that you have GemStart 2.2, but it was on your SE and not easily available. Did you ever get it off of that machine?

Someone pointed out in the Reddit post you linked that the unpopulated chip between the CPU and FPU on my card is for a '030. Looking at your image above, it's interesting both the '020 and '030 locations are socketed. A bit of research showed that they sold the Gemini in either a '020 or '030 configuration, having both sockets would have made it easy to configure either way. The fact mine is branded as Quesse, does not have the '030 socket, and has some bodge wires makes me think it might be a very early version.

EDIT: it turns out I am running System 6.0.8, not 6.0.7. I tried GemStart 3 and it works. I think I previously did not try it because the GS 3 readme says to use 2.2 if you have System 6, so I assumed GS 3 was incompatible with System 6. Interestingly, when I first installed the GS 3, Tattle Tech identified the CPU as a '030, and the accelerator info in the GS control panel identified the accelerator as a Mercury with an '030. After a reboot, Tattle Tech correctly identifies the CPU as an '020, and the control panel accelerator info identifies it as a Gemini '020.

The cool little GemStart startup animation is much nicer than the little ExSys startup icon. :) Does anyone know if the actual Gemini boards had a startup animation like the Radius cards? Not the extension icon/animation, but the Radius card has a Radius graphic that shows up in the lower left of the screen. The Radius graphic is much larger than the standard extension icon size.
 
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ObeyDaleks

Well-known member
My Novy card (I believe the Gemini is the same card rebranded) doesn’t have any POST animation or graphic.

P.S. That’s totally unexpected that Gemstart 3.0 works under System 6 (and a very early accelerator) while 2.1 doesn’t.
 
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Phipli

Well-known member
The cool little GemStart startup animation is much nicer than the little ExSys startup icon. :) Does anyone know if the actual Gemini boards had a startup animation like the Radius cards? Not the extension icon/animation, but the Radius card has a Radius graphic that shows up in the lower left of the screen. The Radius graphic is much larger than the standard extension icon size.
No splash screen or animation other than the control panel zoom (which you can turn off) on any of my cards. I'm not a huge fan of accelerators or video cards throwing branding on the screen. At least it should be possible to turn it off :)
 

Phipli

Well-known member
For continuity:

 

JC8080

Well-known member
My Novy card (I believe the Gemini is the same card rebranded) doesn’t have any POST animation or graphic.

P.S. That’s totally unexpected that Gemstart 3.0 works under System 6 (and a very early accelerator) while 2.1 doesn’t.

It is quite odd. I powered it on a couple minutes ago and it went back to thinking the machine has an '030, so while it seems to work, clearly it's not perfect for this board.
 

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JC8080

Well-known member
For continuity:

Thanks, I installed 2.2 and it works great. 😀 Next I'll try out System 7 and see if this board is compatible.

Have you ever seen a manual floating around for the Gemini?
 

eharmon

Well-known member
Thanks, I installed 2.2 and it works great. 😀 Next I'll try out System 7 and see if this board is compatible.

Have you ever seen a manual floating around for the Gemini?
I've been stalking auctions for awhile since I've got a Gemini Ultra (fantastic little board). Once a manual was for sale on Yahoo Japan but I unfortunately missed out. That's the single time I've seen any Gemini manual come up so they're super rare.

The Vandal manual @Phipli posted mostly applies to the Ultra, from my experience (all the DIP switches match), but your card is way earlier.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
The Vandal manual @Phipli posted mostly applies to the Ultra, from my experience (all the DIP switches match), but your card is way earlier.
One extra thing with the switches, we worked out that if you remove all the RAM from the upgrade, switch 1 lets you tell it to use logic board RAM. Switch 2 doesn't seem to do anything.

The other two are the same as the Vandal.

BTW - what speed is your Ultima?
 

JC8080

Well-known member
One extra thing with the switches, we worked out that if you remove all the RAM from the upgrade, switch 1 lets you tell it to use logic board RAM. Switch 2 doesn't seem to do anything.

The other two are the same as the Vandal.

BTW - what speed is your Ultima?
Good to know, thanks. Do you know if this board (or the later Total Systems branded version) supports 16mb RAM? Is there a way to boot without the accelerator? On my radius card you hold the mouse button, and I've heard with some cards you hold the programmer switch, but I haven't tried that yet.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Good to know, thanks. Do you know if this board (or the later Total Systems branded version) supports 16mb RAM? Is there a way to boot without the accelerator? On my radius card you hold the mouse button, and I've heard with some cards you hold the programmer switch, but I haven't tried that yet.
I don't have an original Gemini sorry, just newer cards. I suspect it supports 16MB though.

I don't disable my card, but the linked manual says use the programmer's buttons. I suspect that will be the same for your card. Have a look through the manual.
 
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