Problems reviving a 9600.

[Lateralus]

Specs in my signature;

Today, my CPU cards arrived in the mail and they were the last parts I was waiting on in order to make my 9600 operational again.

But I seem to have problems getting a video signal.

I've cut down to 1 stick of RAM, used in various slots, swapped out with other individual sticks of RAM. I've tried booting with and without the machine's ROM SIMM installed; with and without my SCSI PCI card installed; with and without my new 73GB SCSI attached, both to the on-board SCSI and the SCSI PCI...

I know for a fact that the Radeon works fine. And I've tried switching it between different slots.

I've hit the CUDA. And I tried to do a PRAM reset but the key combination doesn't take.

I've tried my NewerTech MAXpowr 400MHz G3 and a NewerTech ZIF Carrier with a 350MHz CPU.

Nothing is working. This thing worked when I stripped it and put it into the closet a year or so ago...

Any suggestions?

 

[equill]

What form does 'problems getting a video signal' take? Do you get POST chime? Audible or palpable HDD spin-up? Raster, or not even that? The shorter card amongst the RAM slots is cache—not ROM—of which the cache on the card of a MAXpowr PDS or ZIF CPU should enable complete removal if it is smaller than that on the CPU card. Is your PRAM battery showing at least 3.3V in circuit? Removal of the 9600's ROM (if you could) would turn the 9600 into a kerbstone, anyway.

Given that the MLB was demonstrably working a year ago, first impression is that you have a bad connector somewhere. The PDS slot is one that catches many people out because of the extra force needed to bottom a card in it. That failure should produce absolutely no activity of any kind. Is that what you get rather than just 'no video'? If not that as the cause, is the PSU giving you the green power-on LED?

de

Typo. corrected

 

[Lateralus]

I'm getting chime, I'm getting hard drive spinup and activity, PRAM is 3.6v and the power button is going green.

 

[Gil]

PRAM doesn't take? As in, you do the key combination and it doesn't chime again?

Take out the PRAM battery - I don't think any of my Macs have ever had a working PRAM battery.

 

[equill]

Since video resolution is a parameter that is often stored in PRAM, leaving the battery out is not a good blanket recommendation. It matters not in the case of many Macs, of course, but video cards are apt not to like having no clue about what to do with a display. That seems not to be Lateralus's problem, true, but failure of an apparently-ready Mac to boot needs systematic consideration of all possibilities.

Lateralus: have you tried to reseat and bottom the PDS-style daughter cards? I take it that you are getting to raster, then, but not to on-screen pointer and mouse-tracking? The startup sequence is well-defined right through to the desktop, with quite specific 'milestones' such as those already mentioned. Where does your 9600 poop out, specifically?

Regardless of the lack of accompanying sound (if that is so), does an attempt to reset PRAM give screen blanking after the appearance of raster? Keep in mind that swapping CPU cards in and out is a good time to be using the CUDA instead of the four-fingered salute as the last action before closing the case. The CUDA in a 9600 is indeed a CUDA rather than a PMU reset button, so it needs 20sec or so to be sure of clearing parameters.

de

 

[Lateralus]

Yes, I've worked the CPU cards in well enough. And it is chiming so I don't think the problem lies there.

Specifically, I'm getting no video signal whatsoever. My display just remains asleep. And there's nothing wrong with the display.

Power on > Chime > Hard drive spin-up > Hard drive activity > No video signal whatsoever

PRAM doesn't take? As in, you do the key combination and it doesn't chime again?

Bingo.

Tried several times, too...

 

[paws]

Had this on my G4, replaced the graphics card and it was right as rain.

 

[Lateralus]

I'd normally be assuming the Radeon was the culprit as well. But I just tested it in a friend's Power Mac G4 yesterday.

Drats.

 

[equill]

If you are sure of the video card, you seem to be left with the inconvenient truth that a poor connection, either physical or logical, is at work. Is the video cable to the display known-good? Is the video-out connector clean and bright? Is the brightness control of the monitor (if there is a physical control) at minimum? Is the display working? Is the display compatible with the Radeon? Is the Radeon software on the drive(s)? (Yes. Even without it you should get something.)

As the man-on-the-spot you are infinitely more able to check and recheck every rational or irrational possibility, all the while hoping that it is not something unexpected and overlooked that is having effect. Your problem is unusual, especially with a 9600, but even something as way out as having no ground connection in your mains cable could play a part. Best of luck, and keep us posted.

de

 

[equill]

PS: I don't know the 7200 because I use a 7000 with DVI-I out and a Kansas board in my 9600s. A thought, though. Is the 7200 compatible with a Tsunami board as in a 9600/200? Have you set the DIP switches on the CPU cards to accord with Tsunami rather than Kansas?

de

 

[Lateralus]

The video cable is fine. The monitor is fine. The video connector is fine. The display is VGA and I'm using the VGA on the card. The hard drive is blank, but it shouldn't stop me from getting a signal. And it's a plain old Radeon Mac Edition, I just call it a 7200 as ATi renamed it such upon the release of the 7000, and numerous people have used them in 9600s.

I have the switch settings for neither of the cards, but I wasn't aware a non-carrier required special settings for a six-slot machine.

 

[equill]

For daughter cards used with Kansas MLBs, the DIP switches must be set to ON-OFF-OFF-ON, so labelled on the DIP, or closed-open-open-closed if labelled that way. If your source for the card was someone using the card in an 8600/300, a 9600/300 or a 9600/350, that configuration may persist, but for a Tsunami MLB it must be OFF-OFF-OFF-OFF. You write as if you are familiar with a ZIF Carrier Card, so I shall not list the three DIPs for the NewerTech card (as opposed to the two DIPs for an Apple card), but note that a 350MHz card is Apple-designed. The NewerTech card has a 330 or 366MHz ZIF rather than a 350MHz.

de

 

[Lateralus]

The MAXpowr is a 400MHz G3 and the Carrier has an Apple OEM 350MHz G3 ZIF.

I've set the MAXpowr to on-off-off-on, as well as other settings, but the machine wont even chime with it installed and hasn't yet. But I still get HD activity.

The Carrier, I've set using this. This card always gives me a chime, but still wont give me video.

 

[equill]

OK. So you need a wider net/bigger hammer. It's RAM time. The 9600 can use FPM or EDO RAM, but not both at once, whereas the 9500 uses FPM only. I guess that you have three 128MB cards and a 16MB card. Retire the 16MB card, and put any other unpairable cards (one 128MB?) aside during testing. Be sure that the others are all of a kind (FPM or EDO) and pairable. RAM in the x500 and x600 (x= 8 or 9) should be paired (for interleaving), working downwards from A6/B6 towards A1/B1. No guarantee that this is the present cause of trouble, but it could be. I saved a 9500 from massage with a hammer by removing a supposedly harmless unpaired card.

That same NewerTech manual that you linked to has the gen about the fixed-processor DIP settings. I take it that the MaxPOWR Control Panel and extension are accessible to you, even though not installed on the HDD yet? Getting your HDD initialized and installed with OS 8.6 or 9.1, or 9.2.2 with the help of OS9Helper, will make that software available to the CPU and assist your search for the Desktop.

de

 

[Lateralus]

I've already played the RAM game;

I've cut down to 1 stick of RAM, used in various slots, swapped out with other individual sticks of RAM.

And I have no way to install anything on this hard drive until I get video.

 

[Lateralus]

Hmm... Interesting development.

I decided to fiddle around with the machine again today; I reset the CUDA a few times, and eventually wound up moving the Radeon to slot D2. And... presto! Sorta.

I now get chime and video signal, but the signal is lost within a second or so and my monitor goes back into Standby before it has a chance to actually display anything.

I've only got one stick of RAM in at a time (and I've used several different sticks), the Radeon is the only PCI card, and I've got an XLR8 Carrier in now set to the proper settings. I've also tried three different PRAM batteries, and none of them get me past the signal-flash.

And if I move the Radeon out of D2, I'm back to where I was before; chime, but no video signal whatsoever.

Thoughts?

 

[equill]

Briefly, give yourself a stable point from which to depart and to which to return. Remove all of your potential upgrades and reinstall a minimal configuration of the original cards, processor and RAM. Reset the MLB. Get the whole to boot and show the HDD. Prepare the HDD, install a workable OS, and include extensions and CPs that will be needed for the upgrade. Make sure that this gives you a stable working machine.

Then only begin your upgrades, in the order processor, RAM, video, other cards, one at a time, resetting the MLB after every configuration-change, and assuring yourself of the stability of each new configuration before you proceed to the next. Only thus will you be able to recognize and repair either glaring or subtle faults, and disabilities of configuration that prevent you from reaching your intended destination. Don't abandon any diagnostic procedure because it failed at a single attempt. A known-good external SCSI startup volume will be of inestimable value during the process.

This would have been your best course all along. 'You don't ever know where you're arriving at unless you know where you came from.'

de

 

[Lateralus]

No offense, but I get the impression you're not reading my posts.

I've made it clear since my original post that I'm running with a minimum hardware configuration and have been from the start. I've also made it clear that I'm not getting a video signal; it is, in fact, the entire reason for this thread.

If I had a video signal, I would have already installed an OS. And if the machine were operable enough to allow me to boot from CDs, format hard drives and install operating systems... this thread would not exist.

 

[Kami]

Its not clear to me if you've installed the

- original CPU

- original hard drive or small capacity SCSI on the SCSI-1 chain

in the bare system.

I'm also not clear if you've actually tried to boot from the internal CD-ROM drive using an OS 9 CD-ROM

I'm also trying to remember if your Mac Radeon card required any extensions to be installed

Have you tried SCSI disk mode from your 3400 to the 9600?

This is making me want to pull out my 9600