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PRAM battery

beachycove

Well-known member
A Compact Mac such as an SE/30 with a (new) working PRAM battery installed: when turned off but plugged in, does it preserve settings by drawing power from the battery or from an early form of trickle power? The reason for asking is that I am wondering whether it makes any difference to the longevity of the battery whether the machine is plugged in or not.

 

Blake

Well-known member
Yes im not a expert but saying the clock stops working after the pram dies i would say the computer most likely relys on the pram battery for electricity after it is off

 
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Franklinstein

Well-known member
Short answer: With a dead PRAM battery, most soft-power Macs will retain PRAM settings if left plugged in (and the main power switch in the ON position) because they are provided trickle power. All hard power Macs with a dead PRAM battery will lose their PRAM settings if switched off.

Long answer: Except for weird old boxes like the early II series, a soft-power Mac (including PowerBooks with a good main battery) will always receive power as long as they are plugged into the wall (or have a good, charged main battery) and the main power switch (usually only on compacts) is ON. This is because a low, constant voltage is required to enable the Mac to turn on when the soft power button is pressed, so the engineers figured 'why not give the PRAM battery a break and just draw from this voltage when available?' This has the side effect of extending the life of the PRAM battery because the battery does not see a draw as long as the Mac is plugged in.

The early II series used an odd arrangement that required two batteries, one for PRAM and one to run the soft power circuit, so they were oddballs and won't boot at all if one or both of those batteries are dead.

Of course the hard power Macs do not have a steady trickle from the power supply so they will almost instantly lose their PRAM settings if power is removed. I'm not sure why modern Cuda-equipped Macs get weird about booting with a dead PRAM battery. I assume it has something to do with the Cuda's internal processor booting cold at power-up and failing to initialize properly, thus keeping the rest of the machine from booting without a hard power double-tap or punch of the reset button.

One thing to consider if you're leaving your soft power Mac plugged in all the time: they constantly draw power (obviously) and therefore are subject to some stresses even if they're not being actively used. For example, shut down your soft power Mac, come back in an hour, and feel the case near the power supply. You'll notice that it's still warm, and this is because it's still operating to supply that trickle power. This not only wears components out faster but also exposes the power supply to incoming voltage transients that could damage it. Thus I recommend not leaving your soft power Mac plugged in 24/7 just for the sake of preserving PRAM unless you're also using it on a daily basis. If it's a once-a-month hobby thing, just reset the date and time the next time you use it. These things aren't getting any younger.

 

Franklinstein

Well-known member
A Compact Mac such as an SE/30 with a (new) working PRAM battery installed: when turned off but plugged in, does it preserve settings by drawing power from the battery or from an early form of trickle power? The reason for asking is that I am wondering whether it makes any difference to the longevity of the battery whether the machine is plugged in or not.
In your specific instance, the SE/30 is a hard power Mac and therefore will lose its PRAM settings without a good battery; it does not receive trickle power at all when it is shut down.

 

superjer2000

Well-known member
A few of us have replaced our SE 30 power supplies with ATX power supplies that supply 5v standby. Would it be possible to use a voltage divider to bring that down to 3V and connect it to where the battery connects?  (Any issues with common grounds etc?). That would let us keep our PRAM settings as long as we have our units plugged in. 

 

Bolle

Well-known member
Pretty sure you can also just feed the 5V directly to the RTC/PRAM chip on the SE/30.

It is getting 5V as well from the main 5V power supply once it’s turned on I think.

 

LaPorta

Well-known member
If you went the route of where the battery connects, find out the amperage draw on the battery. Then, you could find a proper resistor to place. Use simple V=IR, or in this case, R=V/I. So, for example, if the current was 0.1 A, and we know it is a 5V circuit, 5/0.1 = 50, so you would need a 50 ohm resistor. Just a crude example, im sure the current is far, far less.

you can then use this to figure that if you have a certain current, what size resistor you would need to achieve 3V instead of 5V.

 
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beachycove

Well-known member
Thanks for this, btw. The upshot was that I removed the battery and unplugged it, as the machine will be idle for several months. (It’s at the cottage.)

 

MacintoshMan1999

Well-known member
I know this thread is kinda dead, but I've always wondered if there is a rechargeable PRAM battery (specifically the 4.5v) Has somebody encountered something like that?

 

Johnnya101

Well-known member
Powerbooks use rechargable pram batteries, not sure of voltage but I think 4.5 coin cells. Yes, they still sell them as well.

 
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