Power Macintosh 4400/200: no graphics

[XBHS1997]

Hi everyone

I'm new here! I'm 17 years old, from Switzerland and have been saving old macs from recycling since 2009...

I've got a "Mutant Mac", a 4400/200, with keyboard and mouse... The owner wanted to throw it away, so I got it... Even if it belongs to the strangest macs made, I kinda like it :–)

The hard drive, the fan etc. are running, but no video output... I've tried several CRTs with an adapter (tried all resolutions), but the screen stays black and the CRTs light orange....

I've done the PRAM-reset at least 3 times...

Now, I thought about the PRAM-battery, a Rayovac 840 (it's quite dead). Do you know how to get these in Europe? (otherwise, too high shipping costs, I think...)

I'm really looking forward to bring it back to life!

Thanks for your help!

Nicolas

 

[max1zzz]

Welcome, Always nice to see someone here my age

As for the battery, just cut the wires off it and use 3 AA or AAA batteries, the Rayovac 840 just has 3 1.5v cells in it (the same kind you would find if you disassembled a 9v battery)

Not sure if a dead battery would stop it giving video though, do you get a startup bong from it? I would try reseating anything removable on the motherboard (Ram, Vram, Cache etc). I know when my 8600 had been sitting around for a while i had to reseat everything to get it to fire up correctly

 

[XBHS1997]

Thanks Max! :–)

So I'm not the only one of our age who likes other computers than the newest Windows 8 watercooled gaming PCs? Nice! :–)

Well, I'm not sure... : http://support.apple.com/kb/TA35928 The 4400 is not on the list, but I'll try...

When I got it, the owner said that he had this problem. He already got it himself with the problem... Probably, it broke down 10 years ago.

He also had the DB-15 to VGA adapter. I tried with 5 different CRTs in every resolution, but the orange light on the CRT doesn't even turn green... nothing.

PRAM reset done more than once, I can hear that it seems to reset...

Yes, when I press the start-button, it "bongs" like it should, and the fan, the hard drive etc are spinning.

I'll try reseating all that stuff, then a new battery, then a new adapter, then a new VRAM, then new RAM, and THEN I don't know what to do anymore ;–)

Thank you very much for your help!

I'll try and tell you.

Nicolas

p.s.: Is there a place here on the forum where one can introduce oneself?

 

[max1zzz]

Yeah i know, i know some people who spend upwards of £400 on graphics cards... never got that, I would rather spend that money on a bucketload of old macs

Dose your adapter have dip switches on it? It could just simply be that the adapter is set wrong

And the best place for that would be the lounge

 

[XBHS1997]

Yeah, I know some of them too! ^^

Always funny how fast some gamers throw away their old stuff which was once great, just some years ago... Most people keep their hardware longer than that, but when I find working 750 GB SATAs in the electronics thrash boxes (already happened), I'm happy! :–)

Today, someone asked me who would keep crappy, 20 years old macs.. Well...

Back to the 4400: Yes it has 6 switches! I tried every possible setting, I think... 

Before posting on this forum, I opened another post here: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6521337

Jeff is talking about a 10-switch adapter... I thought mine had 10, but I've seen that it only has 6... May that be the problem?

BTW, you have a nice collection! :–) My "collection" is 90% thrash finds, most of them are not working (yet :–)   )... (the 145 doesn't boot, then this 4400 of course, 2 iMac G3s, 1 with a software problem and 1 with a dead power supply, a PB G4 with broken screen, 2 PM G5, the MacBook...)

I'll try to make all that stuff work now, and decided to begin with the 4400.

I don't have space enough to have a real collection, so I just take what has to be saved... I also have lots of PCs (don't know why ^^); some cupboards full of other electronics (radios, keyboards, joysticks, typewriters, phones, C64, NES, PS1, IBM PS/2 etc)

Thanks again

Nicolas

 

[max1zzz]

Yeah that will cause you a problem, the  settings are differen't. I'll do a bit of digging and see if i can find the settings

And thanks I actually have a lot that isn't listed there (Including all the machines i never thought i would find, A Quadra 840av, a Quadra 950 and my macintosh portable (and half a 512k...))

 

[XBHS1997]

OK, thank you very much! :–)

Have you found all your macs on the internet?

The Quadras and the portable are very cool too, a friend of my father who lives 5 minutes away from where I live has a portable and some other old macs, but never boots them (the first plans for our house were made on this Portable)

Nicolas

 

[max1zzz]

The smaller table in this pic should be what you are looking for: http://s103.photobucket.com/user/darkknux_2006/media/Book3.jpg.html

And some of them are from online (Such as my LC, Performa 450, Performa 630) but i also get them from a few other sources, one of my mac plus's is actually my dad's first computer (I also have his old G4 Quicksilver and Powermac G5, I'm eagerly awaiting him replacing his mac pro )  and the 8600 and B/W G3 where given to me free by one of my friends dad's. Then there is this guy i found up in norfolk who has a barn full of macs, parts, software, accessory's (http://www.maccity.co.uk/Vintage-Macintosh-Sale.asp) Brought allot of stuff from him

 

[appleontheapex]

I had a similar issue with a PowerMac 7500. The solution ended up being something long the lines of this:

Removing all of the components on the board, the ones that re removable that is. Take everything out, then power on the computer. Power off, unplug, then add a component. I have NO idea why this worked but by the time I got everything put back in the system, it was working again.

Of course, this will be different for you because the model difference. But the general idea is the same. Hope this helped you at least a little. Maybe if this wasn't the solution it gave you some insight.

 

[ArmorAlley]

Hallo Nicolas,

I have some PRAM batteries and an ATi Rage 128 PCI card from my B&W G3 that you can use to test your 4400.

If you feel like lugging your beast to me, you're welcome, otherwise I might come out to you (since you're not that far away).

aa

 

[XBHS1997]

Max, thanks for the link, but I think that these settings are only for this adapter-model, or am I wrong?

That's a nice barn! :–)

Appleontheapex: I think that re-seating all the connectors may have solved your problem. I've disassembled the 4400 and put it all together again. I'll try to boot it today (yesterday it bacame too late). Thanks! :–)

ArmorAlley, thank you very much for the proposal! :–) Are you sure that it supports this card, and with a "blind" install (I mean, without doing anything to the system? ; of course I can't because of the lacking graphics)

I'll write you a message later, now I have to do some homework! Thanks :–)

Nicolas

 

[max1zzz]

I believe they are pretty much all the same, i use the first table to configure my 10 switch adapters

 

[ArmorAlley]

The 4400 has PCI slots and it supports Mac OS 7.6 upwards. The ATi Rage 128 is supported by these, as far as I know.

 

[XBHS1997]

OK thanks! 

Reassembled it, seems still not OK, but I'll tell more tomorrow... But I'm 95% sure that I'll have to take a scrap device this week-end (where we put the trash in my village) to take out the battery holder out...

Then I'm gonna get a 10 switch adapter...

Thanks AA!

Nicolas

 

[XBHS1997]

Hi guys!

Good and bad news!

I've soldered 3 aa batteries together (made 4.68V) and reassembled the 4400. Well, no professional quality soldering, but it seems to work.

Bad news: Still no graphics...

Good: Just like before, I can hear the chime and the HD spinning (CR-CRRRR-CRR). You know what I mean. ^^

I've always shut it down via forced shutdown (not really possible to do it properly, of course).

BUT today, after the new PRAM-battery, I heard a "beep"! Then, I hit the power button on the keyboard and it beeped again! Then, I hit enter, and it shut down!

I've booted an iMac G3 with OS 8.6 and done the same.

Now, I think it booted, at least. (I had never heard any beep before, I think.)

Now:

If it really booted, is it sure that the RAM works like it should? And the VRAM?

I think next I'll get a 10-switch adapter like most of you seem to have. I'm not really confident in my 6-switch adapter...

(Well, a guy 2 minutes from where I live has lots of old macs, but well hidden and I guess it would take too long to find an old and working Apple-CRT.)

If the adapter won't solve it, I'll contact you again, ArmorAlley! :–)

Thanks!

Nicolas

 

[XBHS1997]

Hi again! :–)

Finally I found some time again for my Macs!

Well: Problem solved!

And guess what it was? This f***ing 6-switch adapter!

I got two old Apple CRTs and lots of cables some days ago (and lots of old Macs saved from trash, some in their box ^^). Just connected it, and BAM, the screen went light grey, and then MAC OS 9.1! :–) It boots really slowly compared to other OS 9 macs, but it boots!

SO, when you have similar problems:

– Don't try a f***ing 6-switch adapter, at least not on the 4400, or get an old Apple CRT with cable.

– I've heard the start chime ONLY after I had changed the PRAM-battery, and before that, it didn't react to the keyboard. So: the 4400 NEEDS a good PRAM to boot!

So thanks again for all your help! :–) Now I can start to work on my iMac G3 with software problems.

Cheers,

Nicolas

 

[IIfx]

I am glad to hear you got your 4400 working. Another good thing to try is cleaning all the contacts on the logic board - after so many years those pins get dirty. Electronic contact cleaner can be found in auto parts stores here in the US. 

Those adapters are really hit and miss, I own two different 6 switch types just due to some graphics cards not liking one over the other. 

Consider downgrading to Mac OS 7.6.1 from Mac OS 9 - it will be a lot faster. Mac OS 8 would be a good middle point too if you like the platinum grey look over the old Finder.  

 

[XBHS1997]

Hi and thanks! :–)

Yeah, open it again to clean the contacts or buy another adapter (10-switch maybe) would have been the next thing to do, I had preferred to wait until I get the CRT (I knew I would get it). ^^

Thanks for the downgrading advice! I've never worked on such an old mac (being used to G3s), so I don't know yet how to get OS 7.6.1, but I'll google that...

And I apologize for this mistake:

"I've heard the start chime ONLY after I had changed the PRAM-battery, and before that, it didn't react to the keyboard"

Not true, I heard the chime before, but it didn't react to the keyboard and it didn't make the "beep" before I replaced the PRAM battery.

But it's still true that I'd always start with replacing the PRAM battery when troubleshooting the 4400 or 7220.

 

[XBHS1997]

Wow, that's already quite old! But I thought that I could put a link to some pics, you never know, maybe useful for somebody.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/125700792@N08/sets/72157656373453962