PCI cards for PM5500?

[jupo]

So, I have a 5500/225 that I decided to bling out with all the ports, because why not. External video out, AV in, and the TV tuner are all on the way for pretty darn cheap. I have a CS ethernet card, so that's already taken care of. But after that, I still have the right angle PCI slot staring me in the face. What's the best use for PCI on a 5500? I imagine there aren't any video cards that would have a way to use the internal monitor. Is USB the only real expansion that would have been useful on these?

 

[omidimo]

FireWire/USB Card, but there are only two cards that are compatible: Sonnet Tempo (First model) & OrangeLink (Original model)

These cards use a patch to allow the machine to see them, all other FW/USB cards wont work sadly. 

 

[Byrd]

USB comes in mighty handy, you could also try a Voodoo 2 PCI card for games

 

[Franklinstein]

Yeah for some reason a number of PCI cards don't like the Gazelle-based Macs, or sometimes even the Alchemy or Tanzania, all of which share the same (or nearly so) TI-produced processor-to-PCI/memory controller chip (PSX or PSX+, depending on the model). This chip has to provide all of the byte-swapping of going from PCI's little endian to 60x's big endian* byte format, and it has to operate asynchronously (the processor bus runs at 50MHz in the 5500, while PCI is 33MHz, so it's not only a different speed but also not at a common multiple). It's understandable that very complex cards, such as those multi-function USB/FW/Enet boards featuring PCI-PCI bridges, may be a little wonky in such a situation. Bigger machines based on the Bandit PCI controller don't have quite so many problems, possibly because they are dedicated PCI controllers and don't do double-duty as the memory controller. But then, G3 and later machines based on the MPC106 or Apple's UniNorth often play nice with the bridge-containing cards and those chips are multi-function devices. Maybe Apple just didn't engineer the PSX very well and/or they cut corners to reduce costs since these were supposed to be consumer-oriented machines.

Long story short: it's a lot of trial and error (mostly error) trying to get a multi-function PCI card to work in a PSX-based Mac. See the TAM threads for more info on what cards have been tested.

*The 60x is bi-endian but Apple only ever used big endian mode.

 

[AlpineRaven]

7" PC compatible card with internal adapter. I used to have one in my 5500/250
Cheers

AP

 

[joevt]

Does the 5500 use the same Open Firmware version (2.0.3) as the 6500? I think it is. If so, then the patch at #232 should work to allow any PCI card that works with other Power Macs to work in the 5500 even those with a pci-bridge.

 

[Burgertrench]

Does the 5500 use the same Open Firmware version (2.0.3) as the 6500? I think it is. If so, then the patch at #232 should work to allow any PCI card that works with other Power Macs to work in the 5500 even those with a pci-bridge.

The two machines use the same logic board so I expect the hack will work.
A firewire, usb and sata card would be very nice - in fact i have one coming for my 5400.
Why not get the dual pci riser from a 6400/6500 and try to shoehorn a second PCI card in there too?

 

[joevt]

Why not get the dual pci riser from a 6400/6500 and try to shoehorn a second PCI card in there too?

I'm thinking PCI to PCIe bridge, x1 PCIe to four x1 PCIe, then x1 to x16 PCIe risers in case the four x1 PCIe don't have correct power. If you need PCI instead of PCIe, then add some PCIe to PCI bridges. These can be external if you don't have internal room like a Power Mac 8600 has.

 

[Burgertrench]

I'm thinking PCI to PCIe bridge, x1 PCIe to four x1 PCIe, then x1 to x16 PCIe risers in case the four x1 PCIe don't have correct power. If you need PCI instead of PCIe, then add some PCIe to PCI bridges. These can be external if you don't have internal room like a Power Mac 8600 has.

Would any PCIe cards work with an os9 machine? What product would provide this bridge functionality? I've looked at the Magma PCI expansion chassis but haven't seen any other options.

 

[joevt]

Would any PCIe cards work with an os9 machine? What product would provide this bridge functionality? I've looked at the Magma PCI expansion chassis but haven't seen any other options.

The card needs drivers. A card based on standards that the OS already supports should work. USB OHCI or EHCI. FireWire OHCI. You may be able to use PCIe GPUs that work in a Quad G5 in an Old World Mac running Mac OS X 10.4.11. Nvidia 6600 or 7800 or similar cards require a modified firmware for Old World Macs. SATA AHCI may work in 10.5. Like I said before, it doesn't need to be PCIe. You can connect Mac PCI cards to PCIe and have the PCIe connected to Mac PCI.

There are many options to choose from. I have not tested most of these options. The ones I tried I have not finished testing (which means I don't know if they work completely and I haven't gathered performance results yet).
PCI to PCIe: https://www.startech.com/en-ca/cards-adapters/pci1pex1
PCIe to PCI: https://www.startech.com/en-ca/cards-adapters/pex1pci1
You may want to use some standoffs to secure the PCI back plate of whatever you connect on top of these to the PCI slot openings of your computer case.

PCIe to two PCI: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00KZHDSLQ

PCIe x1 to four PCIe x1: These vary by where the bridge is located and the width of the slots. Usually a computer case will have PCI slot openings with a spacing of 0.8 inches or 20.32mm.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08CL16MZ8
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B092R64W2V
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09WD7HXR1 This one has six connections which may be overkill - this page has links to alternate four and five and six downstream connections options.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B097H4BJR8 I don't know if these slots are 20.32 mm. I had trouble with one of these that had 3 slots. It would detect directly connected USB controllers but not NVMe controllers. They may have power issues and you may be expected to use separate PCIe x1 to x4 or x16 risers for each x1 slot. This one comes with standoffs - hopefully they are the right length if you want to place this in an existing computer case that has available PCI slot openings.

PCIe x1 to PCIe x1 (x4 physical):
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09HTFDNFW These might fit under a two slot GPU. These look narrower than 20.32 mm so they might be good for using existing PCI slot openings. Hopefully the 3.3V regulator takes power from 12V or 5V and you can just use a molex to SATA power adapter. These are two small to have room for standoffs so maybe some rubber feet can used to raise the rise enough for existing PCI slot openings.

 

[Daniël]

Does the 5500 use the same Open Firmware version (2.0.3) as the 6500? I think it is. If so, then the patch at #232 should work to allow any PCI card that works with other Power Macs to work in the 5500 even those with a pci-bridge.

The 6500, 5500 and Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh all use the Gazelle board.

 

[Burgertrench]

The card needs drivers. A card based on standards that the OS already supports should work. USB OHCI or EHCI. FireWire OHCI. You may be able to use PCIe GPUs that work in a Quad G5 in an Old World Mac running Mac OS X 10.4.11. Nvidia 6600 or 7800 or similar cards require a modified firmware for Old World Macs. SATA AHCI may work in 10.5. Like I said before, it doesn't need to be PCIe. You can connect Mac PCI cards to PCIe and have the PCIe connected to Mac PCI.

There are many options to choose from. I have not tested most of these options. The ones I tried I have not finished testing (which means I don't know if they work completely and I haven't gathered performance results yet).
PCI to PCIe: https://www.startech.com/en-ca/cards-adapters/pci1pex1
PCIe to PCI: https://www.startech.com/en-ca/cards-adapters/pex1pci1
You may want to use some standoffs to secure the PCI back plate of whatever you connect on top of these to the PCI slot openings of your computer case.

PCIe to two PCI: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00KZHDSLQ

PCIe x1 to four PCIe x1: These vary by where the bridge is located and the width of the slots. Usually a computer case will have PCI slot openings with a spacing of 0.8 inches or 20.32mm.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08CL16MZ8
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B092R64W2V
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09WD7HXR1 This one has six connections which may be overkill - this page has links to alternate four and five and six downstream connections options.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B097H4BJR8 I don't know if these slots are 20.32 mm. I had trouble with one of these that had 3 slots. It would detect directly connected USB controllers but not NVMe controllers. They may have power issues and you may be expected to use separate PCIe x1 to x4 or x16 risers for each x1 slot. This one comes with standoffs - hopefully they are the right length if you want to place this in an existing computer case that has available PCI slot openings.

PCIe x1 to PCIe x1 (x4 physical):
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09HTFDNFW These might fit under a two slot GPU. These look narrower than 20.32 mm so they might be good for using existing PCI slot openings. Hopefully the 3.3V regulator takes power from 12V or 5V and you can just use a molex to SATA power adapter. These are two small to have room for standoffs so maybe some rubber feet can used to raise the rise enough for existing PCI slot openings.

That's some good information, thank you. I may use this for future shenanigans.

 

[joevt]

I plan on trying a Thunderbolt 3 add-in card in my Power Mac 8600. and using a Sonnet Echo Express III-D for fanout (it has 3 slots). I don't think it should be terribly difficult to create an Open Firmware nvramrc script to enable the Thunderbolt 3 add-in card.