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PB Duo: keyboard substitute

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
{move to Hacks & Dev; renamed}

As subject. Either one, good working order.

PM for details.

 
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Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
Yeah, I'll look on ebay in a bit - just wanted to see if anyone here had one.

If anybody has a non-functional one, I could use some pictures.

 

techknight

Well-known member
I got like 2 but its missing keys. So they are useless. Both in 700Mhz machines with ****ed logic boards.

 
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TheMacGuy

Well-known member
I've got one. Missing all the F keys, pulled it from an Snow 600MHz (Late-01) with bad video chip. Last time I checked, it worked. I can't get it to fit in the 500MHz model, so I have no use for it.

If you are interested, PM me. But shipping to Australia, I don't know what problems I might run into (never shipped over seas).

 

jwse30

Well-known member
I wish I would have saved the old one when I replaced the one on my G4 iBook. The ribbon was shorter on the original one than the replacement one I bought (on eBay about 6 months ago), but they both had the same Apple part number. The new one doesn't fit in my machine worth anything because that ribbon cable is kinda bunched up under the center of the keyboard, causing a hump.

What kind of pictures of it are you looking for? It wouldn't be much trouble to post a few (or email them if you want higher res than what may be allowed here?)

J White

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
Quick reminder; this is a G-rated forum, more or less.

Both in 700Mhz machines with ****ed logic boards.
http://68kmla.org/wiki/68kMLA:Forum_Rules

Please avoid profanity…
While we won't censor your posts * we'd appreciate it if you'd avoid using profanity. While you may not, please appreciate that some people find it offensive. Please show respect for the other members of the forum and keep your language clean.
* until the wiki is un-broken, we can't change that part, but we will do.

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
It may be, although we haven't configured it. I believe the intent early on was that we're all adults here and are generally capable of controlling our language when necessary. Especially given that nobody has since ruined the 30-minute post editing limit for everyone else, and you can draft forum posts outside of the web browser and proofread them for language, conventions, usage, etc.

I think we'd get more pushback if we enabled automatic censoring than if we just cleaned it up afterward.

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
What kind of pictures of it are you looking for?
A picture of the logic-board end of the ribbon cable would be a good start. Accurate dimensions of the actual keyboard plate as well.

I'll fess up - this is a crazyplan to replace the awful keyboard in the Powerbook Duo. Everymac tells me the case dimensions of the 12" iceBook and G4 Powerbook are a match, near enough. Yes, I know case surgery will be involved, even if they fit at all, and various other hacks and kludges - this is not a showstopper. And various sources tell me that the Powerbook keyboards used ADB up into the G4 era: I'm not sure exactly when the changeover happened to USB, so the earlier the model the better, just to be on the safe side.

 

mcdermd

Well-known member
A 12" iBook G4 keyboard is wider than a PowerBook Duo 2300c topcase by about 1/16" on either side and you'd lose the top row of function keys if you tried to fit it into the Duo's keyboard space.

photo.JPG

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Take a look at the nice KBD of the 1400 for your hack.

I haven't looked into the rear section of the top deck issues yet, but I've been toying with the notion of grafting (just barely }:) ) a 1400 KBD onto a Duo. It's an exceedingly tight fit, but looks eminently doable in terms of trimming back the sides of the the top deck bezel, you might have to file the edges of the outboard keys a tad, but the wonderful metal chassis appears to fit without a problem.

I'm not sure about the feasibility of removing the function key row if it conflicts with the chassis or vice versa, but it might work out. I've got one disassembled that's been fitted to the shell of BabyPB, my first laptop, a remaindered PB100. I can dig it out and look at the circuitry. IIRC I was thinking about making new contacts to rearrange the matrix to match outputs, but getting it back together looked problematic. The color contrast looks fabulous, BTW, especially with nicely yellowed plastics.

edit: I just pulled out the boxes:

1) the front edge is still several times less flexible than the Duo's and ought to be fine if the back return is removed.

2) it looks like I can get a KeyCap off without breaking it, but I haven't figured out how to get it back on without borkage yet, so . . .

. . . reassembly using flat head machine screws in tapped holes drilled in the chassis appears to be out.

3) by scoring the chassis using a pointed bit on a router table and bending/fatiguing the function key section off looks like the best bet

4) scoring and snapping the plastic section of same is very doable

5) the flex circuit is a folded, one piece design, so it can likely be bent up, over and between chassis and top deck

6) it'll take some convoluted bending, but the flex cable looks like it'll stretch to a connector nestled under the video cable to the left side of the useless modem connector.

All in all, it looks very tight but good to go. The controller board from the right ADB KBD might fit in the modem bay and be tapped into ADB on docking connector. This would be perfect if you con't need to loose the function keys and a lot easier than getting the KeyMatrix signals to the Duo's MoBo. There's enough space in there for a matrix conversion setup as well, given the right controller. [}:)] ]'>

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I just noted the bit about those later KBDs being ADB. That's not going to help much, the controller circuitry on the MoBo is ADB, but from the looks of mcd's pic, the keyboard itself remains your basic flex circuit KewSwitch matrix, which leads to the matrix conversion/ADB hack mentioned above.

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
A 12" iBook G4 keyboard is wider than a PowerBook Duo 2300c topcase by about 1/16" on either side
Darn. Well that one's out then. Does anyone have the 12" Powerbook keyboard to compare?

For reference, the width of the Duo is 10.9" = 277mm

and you'd lose the top row of function keys
That's probably not a dealbreaker.

the controller circuitry on the MoBo is ADB / the keyboard itself remains your basic flex circuit KeySwitch matrix
So is the one in the Duo, isn't it? No hack necessary - at worst, some software key remapping.

A later keyboard might work (11" MBA?) with a Key Warrior ADB, and a tap into the ADB lines on the dock connector.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I guess you could convert the flex circuit signals to match the Duo's inputs, but tapping into ADB with a KBD controller would be easier. That's the only way to add function key support if you don't need to lose that row to make it fit. I can't make heads or tails out of the KeyWarrior site, which IC would we need?

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
I guess you could convert the flex circuit signals to match the Duo's inputs
Unnecessary. If all the keys ID seperately but incorrectly, Keyquencer or other MacOS keymapping software can take care of the mapping.

TBH, if I need a Key Warrior anyway, there's no particular reason the donor keyboard needs to come from a Mac, except aesthetics. I figure the Powerbook G4 grey/silver might look good against the Duo's light charcoal.

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
I can't make heads or tails out of the KeyWarrior site, which IC would we need?
They're all matrix-in to protocol-out, so any of the ones with ADB out and a wide enough matrix input.

 
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