New here could use some help with my IIcx

[Thanos]

Hello all! I'm glad I could find a classic/ vintage Mac site that was still operational. I need some help. I just resurrected my beloved Mac IIcx. Got it used from a friend in 1991 and it helped me thru college. One day in 1994 I started it up and got the sad Mac chimes with just the sad Mac on screen (I don't remember seeing any codes). So into a box it went. Recently I rediscovered it. I fix PCs all the time so I thought I'd give it a crack but when I plugged it in all I got was clicking.  After a washdown and rebuild with new Kemet Tantalum and EPCOS aluminum caps I'm at the same point I was at 20 years ago but worse. The monitor was lost to time. I think it was an high resolution RBG, it was not mono chrome. I have tried a 10 dip VGA adapter to hook up to an old 19" Viewsonic CRT but cant get it working.

Here is what it will do: Power on and stay on but sad Mac chime.

What I tried: unplug everything. Tested battery (good). Tried a different power supply (I have 2). Tried with no hard/ floppy drive. Took all RAM out, switched it around, tried just 4 (of 8 of mixed variety).

The hard drive indicator light does not light up.

Here's the specs: Mac IIcx 1988, Sony 40mb HD, Astec PSU, 8 Ram cards, 4 Samsung KMM581000A-8 021 SM, 3 unknown manufacture (has a globe on the back) GT-3009 and one with markings other than JMM1M/4M 09S, a Rasterops color board 264 and a standard floppy.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[feeef]

Hello Thanos! Welcome!

If the sad mac came up in 1994, I doubt it would be because of the capacitors. They are now new anyway. Have you checked the RAM sticks one by one, if one is broken, changing its slot may not help. 

I guess you have inspected the motherboard for corrosion or bad components.

Is the ROM on a memory stick on a IIcx? It may be the problem?

This is a tricky one for my poor knowledge in hardware. Other members may help you more than I will.

 

[bigmessowires]

Just a guess, but I agree faulty RAM is the first thing I would check. As feef said, the fact that this happened in 1994 would seem to rule out corrosion and similar problems. The only strange thing is you should also see the sad mac on screen. It's possible your VGA adapter isn't configured correctly - I often have a hard time with these. If you can try the adapter on a known good Mac first to configure its switches, then you may be able to see the sad mac error code from your IIcx, which will give you more clues.

Sad Mac chime is actually a good thing: the computer has to boot and run some self-test software in ROM in order to produce that chime. Also it means your sound still works.

 

[Elfen]

You got it right Feef! Well, except for the ROM Stick; the IIcx ROMs are on sockets on the motherboard, not on a stick like a IIfx though there is a ROM SIMM Socket to put one in with a jumper to set it.

This looks like RAM Problem from way back then. You can run the IIcx on 1 bank of RAM on Bank A, so use that to test what you have. The IIcx can run as little as 1MB RAM (4 * 256MB SIMMs). The RAM should be 100ns RAM or faster. It can take 120ns RAM but it will run slower, and 150ns RAM wont work on it as I remember.

Inspect the RAM Sockets, make sure that the clips are not cracked or broken, that there are no corrosion on the pins, and that they are solder to the mother board cleanly and securely (you need to remove the mother board from the case to check the underside of the board).

I have a board with broken clips, but with a cardboard spacer I can secure the SIMM to be upright with the one before it to test it out. It works once the SIMM is upright, but its not a fix to a problem, just a test of the socket itself. Eventually that board needs to get its RAM SIMM Sockets replaced.

With a mulitmeter you should check the traces from SIMM Socket to SIMM Socket - out of the 30 something pins, 10 will not connect to the other sockets for they are data, and other function lines.) So you should have at least 20 pins that should check out to their respective banks.

Inspect solder joints with a magnifying glass, clean up any corroded joints by desoldering and resoldering it. Thing is, the Tin may have leached out from the corrosion, making it a higher lead content that is harder to melt. You would need to add solder to get it melted and then remove that solder when you got some of it melted and add more solder and remove that - repeat until the joint is completely desoldered and clean it up with some acetone before resoldering.

Once you get it to Chime without a Chimes of Death, you can set up your RAM to its max you can get it too, and add the floppy and hard drive.

You should also recap the video board, there are about 6 caps at the bottom of the video card that needs replacing and one or two in the middle of the board.

 

[Elfen]

The typical monitor for the IIcx was the Apple 13in Trinitron Color Monitor, which gave 640X480 resolution (depending on the card). The switches on the VGA Adapter should be set for that - 640X480, with V-Sync, H-Sync and Composite on Green (or just plain Composite) all on. IF there is a setting for "LC" (as in Mac LC), then put it on that. The Viewsonic monitor should be great for it; there is a problem with older video cards working with LCD monitors, there's a thread on that here somewhere.

You should be able to turn on the IIcx without a video card and see if it chimes or chimes of death without the card. The Sound cords on the IIcx/ci are the same as on the Mac II series; depending if the scale goes up or down gives a hint as to which bank to look at. The notes can be found in the Dead Mac Scrolls Book. Other Death Chimes can mean other things - only about 5 or 6 are listed in DSM book. DSM can be found as a pdf somewhere online, or get a dead tree copy from Amazon.

 

[Thanos]

Thanks for responding and good advise. I did try mixing RAM in different ways. I'm guessing bank A are the 4 sockets closest to the hard drive?

Also I did figure out why I have no video. The video chip at the rear of the card has damage to 2 pins. Very small and missed it many times. They are bent and not in contact with the board. I am going to try to repair it but Ill have to track down some solder points as the traces look as if they have lifted too. If that doesn't work out how about this card, an Apple Macintosh 8-24 display card (Mac display 670) Specs look like it'll work, $20 on ebay, or does someone have a better suggestion.

Oh one other thing, I have listened to some recordings (I cant remember what it sounded like 20 years ago) of IIcx  sad Mac chimes an it seems there are 2 notes played before the sad Mac chime. I have no idea if that helps.

 

[trag]

I agree with all the urgings to check RAM and such first, however, I do not agree that you could not have had capacitor damage in 1994.  My IIci had capacitor damage so bad in 1995 - 1996 that a via had corroded to the point that it was no longer connecting the trace on the front of the board to the back of the board.   The IIci is a newer model, so capacitor damage on a IIci in 95 - 96 would be about the same as capacitor damage on a IIcx in 1994.

I'm not saying you do have capacitor damage.   It's good to check all those easier things first.   However, do not discard the possiblity that there is capacitor damage.

 

[Thanos]

I'm not really sure, I wasn't as technically inclined 20 years ago as I am now. I did a lot of trace testing before an after recapping. Under 3 of the caps was obvious leakage, very small and confined to the area just beneath. By no means am I saying your wrong, I have seen some nightmares inside of Sega Genesis/ CD units (notorious for bad caps an my fave retro game console). One of the pads had also lifted but I did find a solder point for it. All was tested for continuity. I'm confident the issue lies somewhere else an I'm continuing with the RAM testing.

I really haven't had a chance to get to the video card, had to track down a vacuum leak on my car but with that fixed I'm back on this.

 

[Thanos]

Well I have spent about 2 hours playing with the RAM, cleaning, inspecting, no luck. Took out the board and went over an over it looking for blown traces, testing different components. I have finally decided I need to get the video working to see the error codes. The Rasterops is a no-go so I found a video board that will work on Ebay for $10 to start me out. I'm not going to give up yet! There has got to be a simple reason why this Mac worked then out of the blue with no warning -poof!!!!- when so many others performed much longer. It sat on the same desk for 3 years, nothing blocking it, nothing spilled on it, not in sunlight with a printer and a modem that were both still working after. Ill update when I get that card in a few days.

 

[Elfen]

The Apple Macintosh 8-24 display card (Mac display 670) is one of the better cards for the Mac II series, with full memory it gives 24bit color on 640X480 Apple 13in color monitor and other monitors,  and (I believe) gives higher resolutions on multi-sync monitor. There are a couple of varieties of this card, one has a simm socket to add ram and  another has DIP Sockets to put RAM chips there. Setting the video adapter to 640X480, V-Sync, H-Sync and Composite on should work with the 19" Viewsonic. I'm using a 8-24 display card (the one with RAM Sockets - all of them filled) with a Gateway E700 monitor similar to the 19" Viewsonic and it works great.

 

[Elfen]

Thanos, not to point fingers or anything, but it sounds like to me long ago somebody had dropped your Mac and then tried to put it back on the desk and pretend things are OK. There is no way there should be damage on a video card as you describe unless somebody dropped something on it. And if so, what about the board itself?  If you get a new video card, try it on another slot than the one you have this first one on.

Can you post pics of the video card and logic board?

 

[Thanos]

Ok, sorry had to replace fuel pump in my car ( it never ends ) here are some pics of my board
 


 
The Rasterops card
 


 
I got this card off ebay for $10, a Mac display 630-0400, specs look like it should work but I cant get it working, tried different settings on the adapter, what do you think?
 

 

[Thanos]

Oh an I did have a roommate but he didn't seem to have any interest in it, not to say he didn't bump it or anything. I could have damaged more recently when I was working on it, well I say I as I have children who cant keep their hands off anything I'm working on.

 

[Thanos]

Here is a pic of the adapter and specs.

 

[olePigeon]

Get that Maxell battery outta there as quick as possible, it's a ticking timebomb.

Have you tried getting video out of the onboard video?  Then maybe we can get a Mac error code.

For the adapter, I'd try 13" mode 6 (sync on green), and then give mode 1 and 2 a try.

After that, I'd try one of the multiple-scans on modes 6, 1, and 2.  Use it with your ViewSonic CRT.

 

[trag]

Have you tried getting video out of the onboard video?  Then maybe we can get a Mac error code.

No on-board video in the IIcx.  That didn't come along until the IIci.

 

[Elfen]

Here is a pic of the adapter and specs.

This is probably the most confusing VGA Adapter I ran up to; not the adapter itself but the explanation of "modes."

So here goes - as I have it on my IIfx and used to work on my IIcx (which needs a recapping):

640 X 480 resolution with Sync on Green - for your adapter should be: MODE 1346. If not, then Mode 2346 should work.

Modes 1456 and 1467 (according to the chart) should work as well.

Hope that works for you.

 

[ArmorAlley]

Hi Thanos,

I'm in the process of gettung my IIcx up and running. I had the caps replaced earlier on in the summer by someone on this site.

First things first, it needs 4 SIMMs in Bank A or you get an error tone followed by a 4-note tune.

Not all of my SIMMs work though in Bank A and I don't really know why. I reckon that I must have some really slow SIMMs.

What is funny is that the same SIMMs register when they are sitting in Bank B.

I wondered why all of my SIMMs were 1MB big until it finally dawned on me that I need to install Mode 32 on my boot floppy (System 7.5.3).

Secondly, it needs to have a floppy drive plugged in.

I, too, have a RasterOps NuBus graphics card (Paintboard Pro). It starts up without any drivers.