• Updated 2023-07-12: Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this follow-up post about our outage a week or so ago.

New Gecko Browser for OS 9

RichardG

Well-known member
For who's trying to use the forum on Classilla, try changing the theme to subsilver2 in the user control panel. Uses less CSS and even reportedly works on Internet Explorer for Mac.

EDIT: Got it on SheepShaver, wasn't that slow. No web because of 9.0.4's Open Transport which does not cooperate with the aforementioned emulator. When I pressed Cmd-Shift-3, Classilla bombed 26416, which isn't mentioned on this error list...

 

Temetka

Well-known member
I am downloading it now and will test it out inside Classic on my iBook.

Will report back in a few.

EDIT:

Crap, forgot OS 9 is broken on my iBook. Once I fix that, then I can test it out.

 

Osgeld

Banned
I tried it on my 8500 /132

stock cpu and 48mb of ram, os 9.0.4

It took its sweet time loading but works fine (i have not ran accross any site that it doesnt like, but i have not been jumping around all that much with it)

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
Installation on an Intel machine running Sheepshaver is a poor test of the viability of a browser written specifically for the myriad of older machines capable of running MacOS 8.6-9.2.
I'm curious how exactly you justify that statement. On the particular machine I tested on, which happens to be a dual-dual-core first-rev Mac Pro desktop running Linux (yes, long story, short answer is it makes life easier for what the machine does most of the day), SheepShaver with JiT enabled is faster then many of "the myriad of older machines capable of running MacOS 8.6-9.2.".

I know it's an old synthetic benchmark and old synthetic benchmarks are crap, but under Speedometer 4.02 this box scores:

CPU: 30.03

Graf: 16.00

Disk: 4.75

Math: 2528.4

PR: 13.48

The CPU score alone is just shy of eight times faster then the PowerMac 8100/80 score that's the fastest "real mac" in the machine comparison file, and according to this page on Low End Mac, which was the first hit I found looking for Speedometer benchmarks of faster machines my SheepShaver session basically ties a 400Mhz G4 Powerbook. (Other then math, on which it slaughters it.) And this doesn't seem to be an unusually good score for SheepShaver, BTW. My 2.33Mhz MacBook Pro manages to do about 1/3rd again faster then the Linux box.

I could certainly grant SheepShaver more then 128 MB of RAM to make it "more fair", but... think about how many Performa/Powermac 5x00/6x00 models there are out there with 128-160MB RAM limits and maybe it isn't so unfair as it is. Or are those machines not numbered amongst "the myriad of older machines capable of running MacOS 8.6-9.2."?

Anyway, again, just curious why this is a "poor test". Is it a poor test because having no other options would incline me to judge it less harshly? That's not very scientific. All I said was it was memory hog, which is objectively true. And yes, it true of other Gecko browsers. If I were looking at a version of Firefox backported to run on Windows 3.11 would I be any less justified in pointing out the (relatively) huge memory requirements? Most machines running Windows 3.x had 8MB of RAM or less, so I'd think it'd be fair to warn people that they might need to have a somewhat unusually well pimped-out 386 to run said Hair-On-FireFox 3.11 Alpha.

On machines that can run this I'm perfectly willing to say that from what I've seen so far it may be the best Classic OS-compatible browser there is, and that assuming there's enough people out there that still care the project is worth supporting.

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
I'm curious how exactly you justify that statement.
Er, the browser we need is one that works on older hardware running MacOS 8.6-9.2?
And how is testing said browser on an emulator that reasonably accurately mimics said older hardware not a valid way of evaluating it? Haven't exactly made a point there, other then possibly raising a squishy argument that using the emulator somehow isn't in the "proper spirit" of the exercise.

(Emulation/Virtualization is an extraordinary useful tool for software development and QA. Need to see how what you're working on works on a machine with 1/4 the RAM and a different version of the target OS then your development box? Beats wasting power and space on a zoo full of actual hardware.)

 

beta_train

Well-known member
I'm using it right now on my 400mhz 128MB ram Pismo. It runs speedy, but I just went to finder to double check my specs, and it says " Finder doesn't have enough memory to function" or something

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
I'm using it right now on my 400mhz 128MB ram Pismo. It runs speedy, but I just went to finder to double check my specs, and it says " Finder doesn't have enough memory to function" or something
That's the error I got with 128MB of RAM when I launched Classilla without closing iCab first... although Classilla never actually finished launching, it just hung at the logo. (I think it was trying to start the profile migration wizard and hit the wall.)

 
I'm using it right now on my 400mhz 128MB ram Pismo. It runs speedy, but I just went to finder to double check my specs, and it says " Finder doesn't have enough memory to function" or something
Cut a few MB off the memory allocation. They set it to be pretty large.

 

Strimkind

Well-known member
Works fairly well for me on my Powerbook 1400cs with a 233 G3 upgrade and 64MB RAM. I have Classizilla set at 45MB and it works great. Better than iCab in speed.

Right now though I am posting with Netscape 3.01 just for fun. Rather speedy without Javascript

 

Scott Baret

Well-known member
I just downloaded Classilla today but haven't really played with it much. The system I'm using with it is an iBook G3 300MHz with OS 9.1 and 192MB RAM (all physical RAM, 136MB is usually available on a fresh restart).

My observations so far:

1. It doesn't seem to come with Javascript plugins so I'll have to install those manually.

2. It's not fast but isn't too slow either. IE 5 still wins for speed but the interface of Classilla seems to be better.

3. The only site I have tried so far is Facebook. It worked but didn't display "normally"--a few things were missing, many big spaces existed, and there were some problems with text display. My initial blame is on the 800 x 600 resolution of the screen but it could be something browser-related (if anyone else has tried Facebook on this browser please let me know how your experiences were).

Tomorrow I will be trying Bing, MLB Gameday, KDKA-TV news videos, and my personal website. I'll also get some plugins so these sites will be able to work.

I'm also hoping an FTP client will become available for this browser. I use FireFTP to update my website and am pleased with it and would love to see something compatible with Classilla in case I want to store something on the site from my old iBook (namely photos and MS Access databases, since the iBook is my Photoshop Elements machine and is also my Office 2000 computer via Virtual PC). (I'm not really a huge fan of Access but use it for the sake of compatibility with PC users, who haven't really adopted FileMaker).

 

ClassicHasClass

Well-known member
Just a heads-up: Classilla 9.0.4 (assuming I don't have a total meltdown and my MDD build system is still chugging) should be out November 1st. This is not a huge leap forward but there are still some significant layout, JavaScript and security updates. However, I'm being bitten by a serious deficiency in the repaint code for OS 9 in Mozilla which was never fixed xx( (I have a test case for the interested which will work fine on OS X 1.3.1, but not OS 9 1.3.1, Classilla or WaMCom), and this kiboshed a big layout update I was hoping to land. I haven't figured this out yet, and I don't want to delay the release until I do, so I'm shipping the old layout engine with some fixups -- more on that later. One of those fixups is for this very site, and while it doesn't fix the rendering 100%, it makes it useable.

And, I do have an on-topic surprise for you guys which I successfully got to build on my PowerBook. Now to update it to its latest source (about 25% done) and then I'll have done my part for the 68K community :) It's not Classilla, but I think you'll enjoy it. :cool:

(Oh: this post was done with 9.0.4, natch. Eating my dog food.)

 

ChristTrekker

Well-known member
And, I do have an on-topic surprise for you guys which I successfully got to build on my PowerBook. Now to update it to its latest source (about 25% done) and then I'll have done my part for the 68K community :) It's not Classilla, but I think you'll enjoy it. :cool:
A/UX 4? Cyberdog 3? Port of After Dark to OS X?

FWIW, I still think you're crazy. It's a good crazy, but crazy nonetheless. :)

 

ClassicHasClass

Well-known member
A/UX 4? Hah! I wish! (No, seriously, I wish. My Iici would find that fun, even though it has 3.1 and MacMiNT to keep it occupied.)

 
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