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New Disk Emulator - "Tiny SCSI Emulator"
- Thread starter CelGen
- Start date
SCSI2SD already supports SDXC AFAIK... I should test with my 128Gb uSD (44 Bucks on amazon) card I use for my action cam... lol I have the powerbook version in my SparcBook 3GX it works great and Micheal McMaster is a nice guy.... even on the older firmwares I'm sure he would fix bugs if people reported them and they were fixable.
I mentioned the TinySCSI in another thread a few days ago... where people decried it using the NCR5380 as it is a piece of crap... I mentioned this to him and he seems inclined to add support for multiple PHYs at some point... probably something FPGA centric as that is the fastest/most flex flexible solution.
Acutally I just checked and 128Gb uSD go for about $39 now... and https://www.amazon.com/48cm-Sd-micro-Card-Extender-Cable/dp/B007WYRO7Owith an adapter you could potentially attach a 512Gb SD card for about $200 .... though that is sure to come down. Obviously none of this is very useful on machines with SCSI-2... its just not fast enough to do much meaningful with all that space!
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SCSI2SD has just a little bit of a pass because it has extensive non-Mac and even not-strictly-computing applications. I'm told by inertialcomputing that they sell very well for users of certain musical instruments that use SCSI storage for data, for example.
However, it's worth noting that as a community we should not be trashing efforts to build new peripherals. As Gorgonops says, it's childish.
Plus, I think that the idea that somehow using a spinning disk makes you better, more courageous, more manly, or whatever, is pretty ridiculous, and perhaps even toxic, as though there's a right way to enjoy these older systems. As hard disks themselves, never the most durable part of a vintage Mac, become harder and harder to find, and as systems become harder to find, we as a community need to adapt to the fact that one day, Performa 475s with SCSI2SDs will be a much more reasonable and attainable way to enjoy vintage mac software than Quadra 950s and almost any kind of spinning disk.
I don't think spinning hard disks will completely go away in the next couple of years, but it's already to the point where for somebody with literally any ability to set aside for a new piece of hardware should easily be able to get an SCSI2SD v5 or v6 (depending on their needs) and will have a fast (certainly 'good enough' at the very least) and capacious storage option.
To me, it seems a little better than bothering with SCA or other uscsi adapters and then playing the "is this particular disk still working well enough to be worthwhile?" game. Others will make different evaluations and that's perfectly fine.
You're free not to want to use the SCSI2SD yourself, but it effectively solves a problem that users of computers with SCSI have started to have for a few years ago. That problem will not go away, even if you hoard drives.
However, it's worth noting that as a community we should not be trashing efforts to build new peripherals. As Gorgonops says, it's childish.
Let's just face the facts here. Not all Mac users and even not all vintage Mac enthusiasts even have the wherewithal to solder things. It's why recapping services have some success, and it's one of the reasons I personally drop hints to people who show that they can do it that they might be able to make a few extra dollars on the side. (PM wthww, Bunsen, and/or me if you want to have a stickied topic in the trading post as a vendor!)
Plus, I think that the idea that somehow using a spinning disk makes you better, more courageous, more manly, or whatever, is pretty ridiculous, and perhaps even toxic, as though there's a right way to enjoy these older systems. As hard disks themselves, never the most durable part of a vintage Mac, become harder and harder to find, and as systems become harder to find, we as a community need to adapt to the fact that one day, Performa 475s with SCSI2SDs will be a much more reasonable and attainable way to enjoy vintage mac software than Quadra 950s and almost any kind of spinning disk.
I don't think spinning hard disks will completely go away in the next couple of years, but it's already to the point where for somebody with literally any ability to set aside for a new piece of hardware should easily be able to get an SCSI2SD v5 or v6 (depending on their needs) and will have a fast (certainly 'good enough' at the very least) and capacious storage option.
To me, it seems a little better than bothering with SCA or other uscsi adapters and then playing the "is this particular disk still working well enough to be worthwhile?" game. Others will make different evaluations and that's perfectly fine.
You're free not to want to use the SCSI2SD yourself, but it effectively solves a problem that users of computers with SCSI have started to have for a few years ago. That problem will not go away, even if you hoard drives.
joethezombie
Well-known member
Really, no need for the inflated markup, they're $60. I've been using SCSI2SDv5 boards pretty extensively for nearly as long as they've been released. There were a few bug fixes at first, but really nothing for the past year. There does become a point where a product is finished and firmware updates are (thankfully) not needed, and I'd hardly call the product buggy. It's wildly successful for what it is. I'm also pretty darn sure Michael would promptly squash any serious bugs. Just because he is focusing on the new board, doesn't mean he's completely dropping the old.
just.in.time
Well-known member
While this new Tiny SCSI Emulator seems like a cool product, it isn't shipping yet. And we don't even know the target price point. If it is reasonable I may pick one or two up, sure. It has some neat features.
All that said, as many others have replied there is no need to go bashing and trash talking the SCSI2SD. I have 3 (one as a backup, unopened), and the 2 that I have in use work great. The performance offered by it, especially in 68k machines, is plenty usable. Additionally, relative to what the going price on eBay for a 230mb SCSI drive is, I feel I got a great deal on my units.
All that said, as many others have replied there is no need to go bashing and trash talking the SCSI2SD. I have 3 (one as a backup, unopened), and the 2 that I have in use work great. The performance offered by it, especially in 68k machines, is plenty usable. Additionally, relative to what the going price on eBay for a 230mb SCSI drive is, I feel I got a great deal on my units.
finkmac
NORTHERN TELECOM
The 2.5" PowerBook versions are $100. As for firmware updates, the 2.5" will crash the machine when you attempt to wake from sleep… I'd like to see this fixed in a firmware update but it looks like chances of that are slim.
Also more on topic.. the TinySCSI is not a Disk Emulator only... it is a SCSI peripheral emulator, SCSI cabletron Ethernet emulation is in the works among other things... and the author even put Scuzzygraph emulation on the wishlist.
Currently the Ethernet drivers crash with it.. but nobody will be playing $100+ on ebay for SCSI Ethernet anymore once this thing is out. And I imagine it may be able to combine multiple devices into one... perhaps with some speed degradation.
Also I forgot to mention one thing... the SCSI2SD is fully open source so I'm not sure why anyone is complaining.... oh I'm a wimp if I don't have real spinning rust haha... well SMD isn't hard to solder
just flux the crap out of it! In addition if you can't see get a digital scope... here is the source for some reason anyone missed it including gerber files. http://www.codesrc.com/gitweb/index.cgi?p=SCSI2SD.git;a=tree
Currently the Ethernet drivers crash with it.. but nobody will be playing $100+ on ebay for SCSI Ethernet anymore once this thing is out. And I imagine it may be able to combine multiple devices into one... perhaps with some speed degradation.
Also I forgot to mention one thing... the SCSI2SD is fully open source so I'm not sure why anyone is complaining.... oh I'm a wimp if I don't have real spinning rust haha... well SMD isn't hard to solder
just flux the crap out of it! In addition if you can't see get a digital scope... here is the source for some reason anyone missed it including gerber files. http://www.codesrc.com/gitweb/index.cgi?p=SCSI2SD.git;a=tree
techknight
Well-known member
Cool thing about this though is the ethernet could be used as a "wireless disk" solution technically. or use an ESP8266 wifi adapter. Keep all your DSK or HFV/HFX files on a file server and mount them on the SCSI adapter as necessary
No more SD card, no more anything. just wireless. Use the front panel control to cycle through images and mount them.
Or, if your fancy, write a control panel using special SCSI functions you write to control the device that way. so you can use a control panel or application on the Mac itself to cycle through images and mount them.
The downside of this device though is the PHY IC, and the Teensy.
Sure a Teensy is nice, but guess what. You now have a dependency. So if the Teensy goes out of style/production or is changed, your product is now junk unless you make your own Teensies. Thats the problem with relying on "others" for a design of your own. Bad idea IMHO.
No more SD card, no more anything. just wireless. Use the front panel control to cycle through images and mount them.
Or, if your fancy, write a control panel using special SCSI functions you write to control the device that way. so you can use a control panel or application on the Mac itself to cycle through images and mount them.
The downside of this device though is the PHY IC, and the Teensy.
Sure a Teensy is nice, but guess what. You now have a dependency. So if the Teensy goes out of style/production or is changed, your product is now junk unless you make your own Teensies. Thats the problem with relying on "others" for a design of your own. Bad idea IMHO.
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Just bear in mind that using an ESP8266 is separate from direct Ethernet or WiFi support... since they are WiFi to Serial converters.... so basically you only have access to a socket that is handled on the ESP instead of actually having control of the TCP stack.. it just means the code for handing that would be more different than not than the existing code to connect to an SPI Ethernet controller most likely.Cool thing about this though is the ethernet could be used as a "wireless disk" solution technically. or use an ESP8266 wifi adapter. Keep all your DSK or HFV/HFX files on a file server and mount them on the SCSI adapter as necessary
I think he used the PHY IC as a shortcut to getting something working initially he can always enhance the code to add support for other methods of interfacing with the bus later.
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techknight
Well-known member
the ESP8266 is fully programmable/flashible thats why I blerted it out. I know damn well what it does and is capable of.
it was the idea that counted. At least I thought anyway. not the friggen technicalities.
it was the idea that counted. At least I thought anyway. not the friggen technicalities.
Johnnya101
Well-known member
When's the estimated release for sale? My SE/30 may like one!
CelGen
Well-known member
You don't buy them. You build them. Hence why the board layout, parts list and necessary code are available for download.
Why is it so hard for mac people to realize that hobby accessories aren't always pre-assembled masterpieces? Get your feet wet and your hands dirty.
Why is it so hard for mac people to realize that hobby accessories aren't always pre-assembled masterpieces? Get your feet wet and your hands dirty.
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redrouteone
Well-known member
I thought the SD2SCSI was open source and one could build it themselves if so inclined.
joethezombie
Well-known member
It *used* to be fully open source, but starting with v5 boards, the hardware design is "not currently open source".
Compgeke
Well-known member
You've gotta realize we're Mac people. We just want stuff that works. If we wanted to do everything from scratch we'd be using UNIX boxes.
Johnnya101
Well-known member
Because some people don't have the skills or time. I know I know, everyone here should have these skills if they want to work on compacts but still.
Also I didn't see that, I just skimmed through, so this would be a neat project!!
To be honest, I see the "everybody should have $SKILL if you want to use $VINTAGE_COMPUTER" line parroted all over the place and to be perfectly honest, I think it's toxic, and I think it's straight-up shenanigans.
I think it's a great way for somebody who does have the wherewithal to make a few extra bucks on the weekend or the evening to learn how to solder, troubleshoot, etc, and I think that there's a perfectly valid place in the vintage computing scene--any vintage computing scene--for people who want to do vintage gaming or use older software or who need the machine for some kind of oddly specific tool, but don't have the time or the capacity to bust out a multimeter or trace lines through a board, or literally build peripherals, etc.
You might find building electronics fun, but I don't, a lot of people don't, and it shouldn't have to be some kind of pre-requisite or status symbol to be able to do it.
This is a Mac site, not soldering club.
I think it's a great way for somebody who does have the wherewithal to make a few extra bucks on the weekend or the evening to learn how to solder, troubleshoot, etc, and I think that there's a perfectly valid place in the vintage computing scene--any vintage computing scene--for people who want to do vintage gaming or use older software or who need the machine for some kind of oddly specific tool, but don't have the time or the capacity to bust out a multimeter or trace lines through a board, or literally build peripherals, etc.
You might find building electronics fun, but I don't, a lot of people don't, and it shouldn't have to be some kind of pre-requisite or status symbol to be able to do it.
This is a Mac site, not soldering club.
Johnnya101
Well-known member
Exactly. Anyways....
Unknown_K
Well-known member
Simple soldering is the same as simple troubleshooting, slightly different skillset but needed for old machines you find that don't work. People are not born with those skills, and "making a few bucks on the weekend" remarks sound like you look down on anybody with skills you don't need or assume you can just pay for with a happy meal. People who are afraid to pop off the lid and do simple repairs are just as bad as those who buy an Apple 1 and mount it on the wall and forget about it. This site was mostly for people who used their gear and associated headaches trying to do that.
