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My ultimate MDD project

CJ_Miller

Well-known member
I *had* my dream MDD for years, a dual 1.42 transplanted into a 166MHz bus FW400 case, GeForce Ti 4600 128MB video, serial card, video encoder, lots of fast drives. It was always too hot and I worried about it constantly, and it finally died, years after I expected it to. Fortunately, MDDs are much cheaper now than when I cobbled mine together, and I still have lots of parts.

First thing to deal with is that I absolutely need to recase. For a stock MDD the case is great, easy to work on... But my VGA cooler meant that I needed to hack my optical drive cage, and when stuffed with big peripheral cards and hard drives, the air flow is not adequate anymore. I have an extra interior steel case for MDD, and I am shopping around for a very large case to build in. I guess I'd need to go with either extended BTX, or an ATX which I can retool. So basically I need to graft the back of an MDD case onto something off-the-shelf. The MDD board has a funky shape and will need custom standoffs, also a support structure for full-size AGP and PCI cards.

Second thing is that having extra room, and knowing that 1. MDD supplies are not known for reliability 2. I installed a lot of stuff in mine - that I am going to refit an ATX supply for mine, at least 500 Watts. Electrically this is no big deal, and I can make extra regulators for full compatability with studio display or whatever.

Thirdly, it is going to be liquid cooled. Another reason for a bigger case. I have never gone the liquid route before, but if any box I have had cried out for one, it is MDD. No more cooking my lunch in it, nor listening to my windtunnel mac. This should mean that I can run a full 1.42 dual without it killing itself.

Anybody out there succeed in re-casing an MDD? I have searched the net and not seen much info out there. I love the original case but I need a high-reliability, quiet studio machine for audio and video work which can last me forever. I will always use OS 9 in my studio because of my investment in old hardware and software. Much of it I cannot afford to upgrade, and some of the stuff was never ported to X nor Intel. My Korg Oasys PCI and Synthkit setup is worth it alone. Another cool thing about recasing is that I can tool dedicated ports into the chassis which I didn't have room to do before. Instead of flimsy cable dongles and adaptors these things are going to be built into the case: ADB adaptor, 1/4' audio jacks, 1in-1 out basic MIDI for portable use.

Practical work so far has been measuring my MDD door and back panel. I am tentatively looking towards a big Thermaltake LCS case and supply. I built a computer for my wife a while back with their stuff and the quality seemed adequate. I ordered a Spirica liquid cooling adaptor and am looking for a compatable VGA block. Basically, once I retool a case, the rest of the project is downhill.

 

Mars478

Well-known member
Why use a G4 for such a task? I don't think a G4 would be good for a Studio machine... Please prove me wrong :)

 

Osgeld

Banned
I dunno, the thermaltake power supply I put in my wifes computer was very cheaply built, and constantly runs hot (not OMG hot but enough to make you wonder) ... Its not even a year old and I keep expecting it to die any day

on the other hand I have been having really good luck with the ULTRA brand power supplies, I have a 650 watter in mine and a 450 watter in my dad's (and I have been using them in any computer I built within the last few years with none gone dead yet), Mine has not been shut off except for maintenance to the machine or upgrades in 3 years, my dads has not been shut off at all (aside from maybe a power outtage) in 2 solid years

the 131mm fans on those things do ok on cooling them, they are pretty darn quiet (you cant hear mine over the cpu and gpu fans anyway)

 

ianj

Well-known member
Why use a G4 for such a task? I don't think a G4 would be good for a Studio machine... Please prove me wrong :)
They were made almost specifically for that when new; why would they suddenly not be good for it? Also, reread your post while thinking about what kind of community you're in.

- From someone who has used the same MDD for over six years with no plans of changing that anytime soon.

 

H3NRY

Well-known member
Why use a G4 for such a task?
He did say his studio software runs under OS9. G5s don't run OS9, nor do Intel Macs. I use OS9 for most music making on a G4, too. Classic doesn't cut it for a lot of software. Unless you build your music from loop libraries and samples, current generation software doesn't have anything over what was around 10 or 15 years ago. Some of us are slow and need a decade to master the subtleties of our instrument. :)

If you're doing live recording with lotsa tracks, then you want a new Mac. If you're doing arranging or composing, or MIDI stuff, you don't need one.

 

CJ_Miller

Well-known member
Why use a G4 for such a task? I don't think a G4 would be good for a Studio machine... Please prove me wrong :)
Firstly, it we be arrogant of me to "prove" the suitability, considering that it is my subjective opinion.

Why a G4? And why a MDD? I explained that I need to run OS 9, and a maximized MDD G4 is the fastest, most recent OS 9 system there is - and will likely ever be. If I knew how to hack Apple ROMs to run on newer PPCs I would do it, but it is not possible. Also such a box is quite good for running 10.4 as well.

This would naturally lead to the question of why I need OS 9... I use my favorite tools, regardless of what era they are from. Rather than being the guy who threw his PPC in the garbage an ten years later whines on some BBS how lame it is that he can't use Hyperprism anymore. Every system I have has peripherals and software which don't exist on any other platform. Do people trade in their old computer like a car, for a big discount? None that I know. So there is no reason to not enjoy running ones favorite applications natively, unless one is pressed for space.

And if you mean proof as in links to my media, there aren't any anymore. Either that, or I am a bullshit artist, your call! I retired from my noisy musics before my son was born six years ago, and am now trying to get started again. There have been creative fits in the meanwhile, but mostly synth building and screwing around with Max/MSP/NATO on occasion. The circles I ran in have moved on, so there are no tracks nor clips online which I am aware of. Also my output came off as a novelty to many, who couldn't tell one of my jams from another, so I don't really care about distributing my work anymore. To compound the heresy I usually did computer improvisations, and rarely ever recorded them.

 

CJ_Miller

Well-known member
I dunno, the thermaltake power supply I put in my wifes computer was very cheaply built, and constantly runs hot (not OMG hot but enough to make you wonder) ... Its not even a year old and I keep expecting it to die any day
on the other hand I have been having really good luck with the ULTRA brand power supplies, I have a 650 watter in mine and a 450 watter in my dad's (and I have been using them in any computer I built within the last few years with none gone dead yet...
Thank you for the feedback! This helps. I have usually scavenged parts instead of buying them. Maybe Thermaltake outsourced some work to their friends at Pisstake? The 550 Watt I bought for the Mrs. is of decent build, but it's the only one I have seen, maybe I lucked out. I will do some research on the ULTRAs. The reason I went with them initially is because we accidentally ordered a BTX board, and there were hardly any BTX cases then, so I got a deal and have been happy with those products. Much better to read up before buying anything!

 

Osgeld

Banned
I am sure it varies from model to model, I know I didnt get a 550 watt power supply on sale for < 50$ becuase they were being nice (although I just saw a 500 watt ultra lsp with the 131mm fan and lifetime warranty on sale for 49$ soo....)

I dont know much about the other ultra products, bought a heat sink from them its nice, they have cases too, but power supplies with lifetime warranties is a good start to make me want to look at more of their stuff heh

 

ianj

Well-known member
Why a G4? And why a MDD? I explained that I need to run OS 9, and a maximized MDD G4 is the fastest, most recent OS 9 system there is - and will likely ever be. If I knew how to hack Apple ROMs to run on newer PPCs I would do it, but it is not possible. Also such a box is quite good for running 10.4 as well.
No need to limit MDDs to 10.4; they can handle 10.5 just as well.

This would naturally lead to the question of why I need OS 9... I use my favorite tools, regardless of what era they are from. Rather than being the guy who threw his PPC in the garbage an ten years later whines on some BBS how lame it is that he can't use Hyperprism anymore. Every system I have has peripherals and software which don't exist on any other platform. Do people trade in their old computer like a car, for a big discount? None that I know. So there is no reason to not enjoy running ones favorite applications natively, unless one is pressed for space.
It's good to see more people around with this mindset. Those who throw away their old computers only to complain about what they've lost down the road seem to be increasing in number (at least on the Internet), and the more I see it, the more confused I am as to why, if people like this computer or that software so much, they feel like getting rid of it is some sort of unavoidable necessity.

 

CJ_Miller

Well-known member
I have been sidetracked for a couple of months, but now am again making some progress.

I looked into salvaging some server chassis here but found a big, easily customizable case to put my MDD in. It is a Thermaltake SwordM which was getting liquidated. Tonight I removed the built-in mounting plate and bolted in the stripped-down door of a spare MDD case. I eyeballed the measurements and plotted the holes with a scrap of metal and a marker and was surprised that it fit together so well. I just finished putting the rest of the case together. For the rest of the weekend I will go over the wiring to adapt it to the MDD, such as an ATX power cable so I can use a supply with more headroom. Also the front panel controls are getting modified so I can use the MDD switch, USB and firewire. There is a mini-DIN for eSATA which I am replacing for connection to my Stealth serial port. Also my OASYS card is getting permanent i/o on the case, instead of the flimsy breakout wires the card comes with. My Matrox RTMac video box might get a similar treatment.

Also I bought an XServe dual 1.33GHz processor for cheap, it looks like new. Once I have the case and wiring set up I will drop this in and see how the liquid cooling goes.

This is also freeing up enough parts for me to make a FW800 for The Mrs.

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zerotypeq

Well-known member
I just built a new machine and used a CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V it has amazing reviews and runs at a pretty cool temp in the case I used. I guess just putting my vote towards a corsair PSU and good luck on your project I really can't wait to see it completed. I'm also going to guess that your os9 software doesn't run well under classic or your accessories do not work under classic?

 

CJ_Miller

Well-known member
I just built a new machine and used a CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V it has amazing reviews and runs at a pretty cool temp in the case I used. I guess just putting my vote towards a corsair PSU and good luck on your project I really can't wait to see it completed. I'm also going to guess that your os9 software doesn't run well under classic or your accessories do not work under classic?
Thanks for the tip on the Corsair. The wife just bought a laptop recently and (supposedly) gave her tower back to me, so I am testing with whatever Thermaltake 500 Watt is in there. I will need a new PSU though because she hardly remembers anything. Just yesterday she accused my of stealing her old Dell PII workstation, which she explicitly offered to me about five years ago... Sure enough she will want this tower back when the wind changes direction.

I am holding off on my ATX>MDD PSU mod, going to use an ATX extender cable in case I want to change it out later. I modified my Stealth serial port, and am looking into actually mounting my "mirrored drive doors" in the case, so it stays true to its name.

I never bothered with the Classic Environment. It is probably useless for hardware-level access such as OMS and my video input. I can't imagine that the extra emulation layer would do anything good for the timing of my multimedia projects! Seriously, think of emulators as good for nostalgia, or a last resort for productive systems. Anyway, I have five other Macs in this room now which can run pre-X MacOS, so why not just run it native? Classic might work for editing files, but not for live computer music/video.

 

Paralel

Well-known member
No offense intended, but your wife sounds a little nuts.

I would have her sign and date a letter whenever she gave me anything if she wasn't going to remember giving it to me. That way you can always say "See, you gave it to me!"

 

zerotypeq

Well-known member
Well, classic mode does not emulate I'm not 100% if it does virtulization or is just an interpreter, but it is not emulation. I was suggesting that because G5s can run classic mode (while not os9) so that might be a beast to check out!

 

CJ_Miller

Well-known member
Well, classic mode does not emulate I'm not 100% if it does virtulization or is just an interpreter, but it is not emulation. I was suggesting that because G5s can run classic mode (while not os9) so that might be a beast to check out!
When I said emulate, in this instance I didn't mean machine instructions, but the layers of abstraction which a virtual machine uses to interact through actual hardware. To my mind it is still "emulating " its I/O, but I guess I am likely to be misunderstood. I do try to avoid using the term "virtual" in any non-metaphysical context.

Anyway, I just wanted to document my project-in-progress. It didn't occur to me that I should justify my use of an older OS on a 68k board...

 
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