MacintoshClassicIIIColorTVp™ Hack

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

CrapShack had a nifty little Mini-Projector on sale at half price, it was listed as a 640 x 480 unit, but that's the "default setting" I'm not sure if it actually does the 1280 x 1024 (?) resolution or down-converts it to 640 x 480. It doesn't matter though, I intend to run it at 640 x 480 off one of my TV Tuner Cards in either my 6360 or 6500/50 mobo with or without the Crescendo G-3/466.

This is what happens when inspiration strikes at about 3 AM on a work night!

It got a "tad" better on the second go-round, but I don't advise trying to rig up an optical table experiment when you're only half awake! [] ]'>

Here are a couple of shots of "Setup A"

Here's a shot of "Setup B" done the next morning, set up on a "Project Tray" so it can be moved to a surface that doesn't vibrate excessively whenever ANYTHING moves even just a little bit!

Here's a shot of the ceiling test.

The Projector will be mounted inside my Mac Classic testbed (for now), so that it will point up at a front surface mirror . . . < reminds self to snag that $24 overhead projector he's been eying > . . . passing through what's now a 3 Diopter Closeup Lens Attachment and, hopefully, an inexpensive WA lens attachment to shorten the projection distance and provide just the RIGHT amount of "Pincushion Distortion" to allow the projected image to perfectly fill the cut-off face of the 10" Color CRT that was going to be installed in this hollow shell. I'm not too worried about the optical end of things, the large expensive VidCam WA adapter does a great job of creating variable "pincushion distortion," depending upon its position, to create a rectangular image on a curved CRT faces's inner surface. There's a lot of variety in terms of closeup lenses available to get the proper focus at the perfect distance, if one or any combination of the three I already have won't work.

The cuts are already made in the back of the case to perfectly mount an inverted Q630/6360 metal backplane. But I'll be pairing the Classic with my first ever large capacity HDD's ZFP Case from APS. This will allow the use of a 6500 riser and two PCI cards, the bottom (top if you look at it the other way around!) one a USB card that'll nestle entirely within the ZFP HDD case while the slot closer to the MoBo will likely have a nice PCI Graphics Card in it for driving one of my big monitors or LCDs without the need for running the projector when I use the Hack as a PlotterServer.

Hopefully, the right optics will allow me to use a hole saw to make an opening in the "handle trough" for projecting onto the ceiling when the mirror/auxiliary lenses are flipped forward. the Projector itself, having been mounted with the bottom towards the back of the Classic shell, will be tipped forward/backward(?) so that it's facing rearward topside-up for projecting artwork onto a canvas to do a painting or to turn one of my many small sketches into a large Charcoal or Ink Drawing, which is the main reason I bought the projector.

The composite unit/hack, will sit on my Display/PlayStation and all I'll need to do to use it for art projection or movie projection will be to pull it off the shelf, configure it for whatever purpose on whatever surface at whatever height I want. The optical tomfoolery allows for braggin' rights on doing a MacintoshClassicIIIColorTVp™ Hack in a REAL Classic Case . . . or maybe my friend still has that old Mac Plus I used with the ZFP HDD back in the day . . .

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

. . . or maybe my friend still has that old Mac Plus I used with the ZFP HDD back in the day . . .

:'( I called him today and it's LONG gone . . . [V]

That Plus and I had a long and interesting history, up to and including, it and my ZFP HDD being stolen by a homeless guy (known as "bums" back in the day) from my Manhattan Sign Shop and then getting it back with all the other goodies the miscreant had stuffed into my Big@$$ tent bag. NYC's finest nabbed the guy and I picked everything up at the local precinct! I guess he was lookin' to sell the stuff, but you'd think he'd have wanted the freakin' tent to live in . . .

. . . the PUTZ!!! :

Does anybody know if the Classic and all the other compacts share the same Case Shell? The Back of the case doesn't matter at all, as I'm replacing the vertical "Power/Switch Slot" with AV connectors etc. The MoBo's I/O Connector Space is already entirely missing.

So the question is, can I choose another Face Bezel and have it fit onto the heavily modded Classic Case shell w/o any more excessive modification? :?:

 

[johnklos]

Crazy! Wonderful! Can't wait to see it finished!

Whereabouts in Manhattan are you?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I'm not, I live in the Bermuda Triangle, NC, sometimes referred to by the State as the Research Triangle Park . . .

. . . my nick' for it is a lot closer to what goes on down here . . .

. . . startup $ appears and disapears without a trace! }

Thanks for the compliment, I may have sourced a tiny ATX PSU to run the whole shebang today! [] ]'>

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

More pics of the @$$Less Classic with an inverted 6360 MoBo-n-Backplane in place and sitting upon my venerable 1 GB ZFP HDD Case/Expansion Bay.

I picked up a new projector at CrapShack today: the original was supposedly NIB, but had been returned by some unscrupulous customer who'd knocked the lens ring loose and had warped/smooshed in the bottom plate of the first one I got. The second one is factory sealed and I'll be trying it soon.

The really big news is that I found a DVD Player w/S-Video & 5.1 out that's maybe just small enough to fit! It seems like a better choice than a CD or DVD Writer for this hack, [] ]'>

 

[Bunsen]

Gloriously over the top! Love it.

half price

May I ask how much?

Also, that tiny little black box is the whole projector??

off one of my TV Tuner Cards

So it only has composite in?

the cut-off face of the 10" Color CRT that was going to be installed in this hollow shell.

You sacrificed a 10" CRT for this? Oh my.

What treatments if any did you do to the face? Did you consider any alternative methods (like heat-forming some plastic, using the original CRT as a mould)?

There's a lot of variety in terms of closeup lenses

Ah, reminds me, I have three shoeboxes full of assorted lenses still in their labelled paper packets. If you can work out what you need, I'll see if I have it. Bear in mind I have no idea about this stuff, so it'll be a case of me reading the labels and seeing if they match what specs (lol) you send me.

inverted Q630/6360 / ZFP Case / 6500 riser and two PCI cards

Ahhhh, the sub-basement case expansion method! Great minds etc

Will the HD case be permanently fixed to the classic shell, or will it be removable? I wonder if the motherboard will boot without the PCI riser? See where I'm going here?

an opening in the "handle trough" for projecting onto the ceiling when the mirror/auxiliary lenses are flipped forward

With one less reflection, won't the ceiling image be inverted compared to the screen image? Or can the projector take care of that itself?

the Projector itself/ will be tipped forward/backward(?) so that it's facing rearward topside-up for projecting artwork onto a canvas / movie projection

If you center pivot your mirror, and cut another hole in the rear, you could just rotate the mirror through 90 degrees for the same effect. Alternatively, make the front screen removable.

can I choose another Face Bezel and have it fit onto the heavily modded Classic Case shell

I'm doubtful - wiser heads than I may have better advice. Have you checked macfaq.org?

a DVD Player w/S-Video & 5.1 out / seems like a better choice than a CD or DVD Writer

Might be - unless you use (I think) an ATI Rage 128 with the hardware DVD decoder chip and S-Video out - or a better ATI with S-Video, if there is one. Still, a proper DVD player will be the only way of getting 5.1 surround if you want it.

Overall, very impressive. The kind of tomfoolery I've often pondered, but it takes a Mad Scientist of your calibre to pull it off

 

[Mars478]

Woah, Nice job!

I eyed those Pico projectors but they were a tad bit rich for my blood at the moment at 69.99 (Of course I was at the Apple store, and everything is expensive there)

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Gloriously over the top! Love it.

Gracias, compadre! [] ]'>

half price

May I ask how much?

Also, that tiny little black box is the whole projector??

$103 after a $15 coupon toward the extended warranty. $99 marked down from $199, probably not the best price available, but as I said it was an impulse purchase!

YUP!

off one of my TV Tuner Cards

So it only has composite in?

VGA & composite too, the Tuner Cards Spit VGA based video out the onboard video port.

the cut-off face of the 10" Color CRT that was going to be installed in this hollow shell.

You sacrificed a 10" CRT for this? Oh my.

Who wouldn't? :?:

What treatments if any did you do to the face? Did you consider any alternative methods (like heat-forming some plastic, using the original CRT as a mould)?

I'm hoping the color phosphors will help, if not, I'll polish them off and etch a matte Glass Rear Projection Screen! }

There's a lot of variety in terms of closeup lenses

Ah, reminds me, I have three shoeboxes full of assorted lenses still in their labelled paper packets. If you can work out what you need, I'll see if I have it. Bear in mind I have no idea about this stuff, so it'll be a case of me reading the labels and seeing if they match what specs (lol) you send me.

inverted Q630/6360 / ZFP Case / 6500 riser and two PCI cards

Ahhhh, the sub-basement case expansion method! Great minds etc

)

Will the HD case be permanently fixed to the classic shell, or will it be removable? I wonder if the motherboard will boot without the PCI riser? See where I'm going here?

I was sorta thinking about having the Classic hinged to tilt forward or backward like a Semi-Tractor-Trailer Cab! :rambo:

Boots fine w/o a riser, there's not even any glue logic on them, just a straight slot expander!

Nope! :?:

an opening in the "handle trough" for projecting onto the ceiling when the mirror/auxiliary lenses are flipped forward

With one less reflection, won't the ceiling image be inverted compared to the screen image? Or can the projector take care of that itself?

NoPro, see ceiling test above!

the Projector itself/ will be tipped forward/backward(?) so that it's facing rearward topside-up for projecting artwork onto a canvas / movie projection

If you center pivot your mirror, and cut another hole in the rear, you could just rotate the mirror through 90 degrees for the same effect. Alternatively, make the front screen removable.

What rear? See above! [] ]'>

can I choose another Face Bezel and have it fit onto the heavily modded Classic Case shell

I'm doubtful - wiser heads than I may have better advice. Have you checked macfaq.org?

Nope! The one I have'll do fine for now!

a DVD Player w/S-Video & 5.1 out / seems like a better choice than a CD or DVD Writer

Might be - unless you use (I think) an ATI Rage 128 with the hardware DVD decoder chip and S-Video out - or a better ATI with S-Video, if there is one. Still, a proper DVD player will be the only way of getting 5.1 surround if you want it.

: 50" Projection System - 5.1 =

Overall, very impressive. The kind of tomfoolery I've often pondered, but it takes a Mad Scientist of your calibre to pull it off

Nah! The rugger's the scientist . . . I'm just the family madman! }

< bolts for work, will clean up/finish post later! >

 

[redrouteone]

I've been thinking of picking up one of those pico projects to build a DIY heads up display for my car.

Humm... $100 still seems a little steep.

 

[Bunsen]

You sacrificed a 10" CRT for this? Oh my.

Who wouldn't? :?:

Someone who thought a 10" CRT might a/ have better uses elsewhere (ie in another Mac!) and b/ not actually work all that well. You see:

I'm hoping the color phosphors will help

IMHO, they won't help a jot - if anything, they'll interfere with the colours coming off the projector and also waste a lot of light. You can see in superpantoufle's example that the image is quite dim, using the face from a greyscale CRT.

I really think a piece of white plastic, or a clear acrylic with a sandblasted frosted surface, or similar, is going to give you a more satisfactory result.

Will the HD case be / removable? / See where I'm going here?

Nope! :?:

Interchangeable sub-basements with different PCI cards for different purposes.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

You sacrificed a 10" CRT for this? Oh my.

Who wouldn't? :?:

Someone who thought a 10" CRT might a/ have better uses elsewhere (ie in another Mac!) and b/ not actually work all that well.

It's been taken apart for nigh on six years now . . . I'm fairly certain that I can reassemble it, but I like the notion of testing the color phosphors. That'll be a lot more interesting/fun to do than the cantilevered addition to this Compact Mac that I'd planned to do with it, hence the missing back of the case!. [] ]'>

It was intended to be a benchtop debugging system/PDF display unit, so its being fugly to boot was actually kinda

I'm hoping the color phosphors will help

IMHO, they won't help a jot - if anything, they'll interfere with the colours coming off the projector and also waste a lot of light. You can see in superpantoufle's example that the image is quite dim, using the face from a greyscale CRT.
I really think a piece of white plastic, or a clear acrylic with a sandblasted frosted surface, or similar, is going to give you a more satisfactory result.

Wasn't he using a CRT behind the original B+W CRT Face?

50" image projection shrunk to a 9" image = beaucoup lumens to spare, or so I would surmise . . . :simasimac:

Will the HD case be / removable? / See where I'm going here?

Nope! :?:

Interchangeable sub-basements with different PCI cards for different purposes.

Nah! If I wanted to do that, I've got a Doube Height ZFP case. I'd just hot-wire a more abundantly slotted PC-PCI riser so I could A/B/C/D select one or both of the bridge chip's available PCI Slot assignments, all the while leaving the actual cards in place.

That was the point of the (as yet unrealized) BrickOven HackSpec back in the day, except in that case, it was a stack of MicroQuadra MoBo's with assorted cards that'd be A/B/C/D/E/F (G/H ?) selected using one PSU, shared I/O capacity and assorted internal and external peripherals. Each MoBo had its own tiny laptop boot drive/adapter for the drivers & system setup for that MoBo's particular card.

 

[Osgeld]

I dont think the phospors are going to do much if anything, typically they need radiation

now if you replace the projector bulb with a high powered uv one, then you might have something ... along with burned retinas and a much higher risk of skin cancer, and possibly a dead goldfish

 

[Bunsen]

Wasn't he using a CRT behind the original B+W CRT Face?

No, an LCD.

50" image projection shrunk to a 9" image = beaucoup lumens to spare, or so I would surmise . . . :simasimac:

You may be right. However:

I dont think the phospors are going to do much if anything, typically they need radiation

Technically, yes - high energy (ie fast) electrons, which are also known as cathode rays or beta radiation, are what is required to excite those phosphors. IMHO, ordinary light won't do it, and (IIRC) without excitation, the phosphors don't actually have the three RBG colours at all. They'll just sit there, black or gray or muck coloured, blocking light.

now if you replace the projector bulb with a high powered uv one

Not convinced that would do anything either - and even if it did, the UV light won't be correctly split up by the colour mask in the LCD.

But heck, I'm just specumalatin', while you're experimentatin', and reality beats theory every time. I'd be willing to take bets though.

Interchangeable sub-basements with different PCI cards for different purposes.

Nah! If I wanted to do that / I'd just hot-wire a more abundantly slotted PC-PCI riser so I could A/B/C/D select one or both of the bridge chip's available PCI Slot assignments, all the while leaving the actual cards in place.

Ouch! OK, I got there in the end, but it hurt my brain a little. Nice thinking.

 

[Osgeld]

no it probably wouldn't come close to the colors on the mask, but yea intense UV light will excite phosphors, this is how florescent lamps work , the inside of the tube is coated and the intense uv light generated from the point A to point B arch is what causes it to glow (whatever color)

without a focused point hitting a special spot on the front of the CRT it might just glow white, and I am sure the intensity would not be impressive even with a high powered germicidal bulb (which would blind you anyway)

 

[Bunsen]

intense UV light will excite phosphors, this is how florescent lamps work

Except those are totally different phosphors to what's inside a CRT. It might work, it might not.

it might just glow white, and I am sure the intensity would not be impressive even with a high powered germicidal bulb (which would blind you anyway)

I tend to agree with you there.

Re superpantoufle's MacMinitosh:

No distortion at all, but still a few issues: the main thing is clarity/luminosity. It's a dark grey glas, which retains a lot of light. Then even at full luminosity, the LCD appears not very bright.

Maybe that grey glass would be the only thing making those "beaucoup lumens" bearable to look at! If the projector has adjustable brightness, it'd still be preferable (IMHO) to use a clearer screen and a little less electrickery. If the glass is absorbing a lot of light it will also become a source of waste heat.

jt: superpantoufle really emphasised how much hard work it was cutting down that CRT. Have you already done that step?

The second issue I noticed is that the glass seems to be polarised or something, so the viewing angle is very short. You have to be straight in front of the screen to be able to see and read well enough. But maybe this is because / there is about eight milimeters of free space between the glas and the LCD at the center of screen, and much less in the borders.

If the narrow viewing angle is caused by a lensing effect, then it probably won't apply, or at least Trash80 will be able to correct for it, hopefully. I doubt the glass is polarised.

 

[Bunsen]

I've been thinking of picking up one of those pico projects to build a DIY heads up display for my car.
Humm... $100 still seems a little steep.

I've been checking around online - that's half or less than half of the going price.

Still, if you don't mind a bit of DIY and less than 640x480, you could build a miniature version of those DIY home theatre projectors out of a small, cheap TFT and some lenses.

Myself, I'm still on the prowl for a 1.5" LCD - because that ought to fit nicely in a 35mm slide projector. /edit/ actually closer to 1.7" - 36 x 24 mm// I'm not at all sure there is such a thing though, at least not one that takes VGA or TV input. The nearest I've found are Nokia LCDs and their clones, which are 128x128 and require a microcontroller to drive them. They're cheap and popular with hackers, and there's a fair amount of info out there on driving them.

 

[Osgeld]

well, I used to have some 1.5 inch lcd's they came out of an old VR helmet, and the box it connected to took ntsc and vga

might be something to look for

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

intense UV light will excite phosphors, this is how florescent lamps work

Except those are totally different phosphors

it might just glow white, and I am sure the intensity would not be impressive even with a high powered germicidal bulb

I tend to agree with you there.

UNCLE!!!!! ) Alright already, I'll start off by lopping off the face of a standard HobbitMacCRT™ already!

Re superpantoufle's MacMinitosh:

No distortion at all' date=' but still a few issues: the main thing is clarity/luminosity. It's a dark grey glas, which retains a lot of light. Then even at full luminosity, the LCD appears not very bright.[/quote']Maybe that grey glass would be the only thing making those "beaucoup lumens" bearable to look at! / it'd still be preferable (IMHO) to use a clearer screen. If the glass is absorbing a lot of light it will also become a source of waste heat.

The projector is the source of all the heat, hence the sound output mimics a microscopic jet engine! }

The Glass might be an inefficient waste heat diffuser, but it's GLASS after all, it's already a rigid molten silica composite and it ain't gonna get all that much less rigid . . . though a Dali inspired molten CRT would be kinda !!!!!

It's also not very likely that the remaining face & projector can transfer anywhere near the heat to the plastic bezel than the original CRT. [] ]'>

BTW: The image shows perfectly through a white sheet of printer paper, so some gray glass prolly' can't cut down on the projected image's intensity by all THAT much. [] ]'>

jt: superpantoufle really emphasised how much hard work it was cutting down that CRT. Have you already done that step?

No, but NoPro, a simple two part clamp jig and four rip cuts on a diamond bladed, wet cut tile saw will work wonders on a CRT . . . [] ]'> . . .

. . . or not! :

The second issue I noticed is that the glass seems to be polarised or something, so the viewing angle is very short. You have to be straight in front of the screen to be able to see and read well enough. But maybe this is because / there is about eight milimeters of free space between the glass and the LCD at the center of screen, and much less in the borders.

The face of a CRT is basically a Convex/Convex lens, creating a large magnifier, IIRC, which would account for the narrow viewing angle and tremendous light falloff at the edges. Vacuum forming a plexi cover would be a better choice for his hack, IMHO.

If the narrow viewing angle is caused by a lensing effect, then it probably won't apply, or at least Trash80 will be able to correct for it, hopefully. I doubt the glass is polarised.

Glass isn't polarized, its coatings are, which could be easily removed if there were any, which is doubtful in any case, AFAIK.

 

[Osgeld]

BTW: The image shows perfectly through a white sheet of printer paper, so some gray glass prolly' can't cut down on the projected image's intensity by all THAT much. [] ]'>
Glass isn't polarized, its coatings are, which could be easily removed if there were any, which is doubtful in any case, AFAIK.

it might dull the color a little, but you can overcompensate it to a point, but onto quote nibble #2 you never know, I took a buffing wheel to a samsung one day and from the front (i didnt cut it open) once I removed the distorted/ peeling glare coating it appeared to be clear glass all the way back to the shadow mask and phosphor

tho appearing and being are two totally different things

oh and please be mindful about the dust inside of those things, I cant think of a single non toxic substance on the inside of a crt