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Macintosh 128k Restoration: Help!

sadmanonatrain

Well-known member
Hello all,

I am busy restoring a 1984 Macintosh (240v International) but have run into some problems.

I have already posted about my experiences trying to find replacement components and recapping most of the analog board.

Here is the topic in question as it will serve as background context: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22042

So, at the moment the Macintosh does nothing when power is applied; voltages at the floppy port are all under 1.00v.

I don't know where to start!

Any help will be much appreciated!

 

sadmanonatrain

Well-known member
Hello all,

I have been looking at my copy of 'The Dead Mac Scrolls' and I think the problem could be centred around the following board references: CR5, CR21 and CR20.

The leads of CR20 and CR21 look like they have been blackened by something.

The component in front of CR5 looks like it has been charred on its surface. Perhaps by heat from CR5?

I think that it would be a good idea to replace these components on my 240v board.

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

bigmessowires

Well-known member
Could you try disconnecting the analog board from the logic board, then measure the voltages on the analog board connector? That would at least tell you which board you need to troubleshoot.

 

sadmanonatrain

Well-known member
Could you try disconnecting the analog board from the logic board, then measure the voltages on the analog board connector? That would at least tell you which board you need to troubleshoot.
When I tested the voltages on the floppy port they all read under 1.0v (more like 0.50v).

I will try measuring the voltages directly from the analog board later today them report back!

Thank you

 

sadmanonatrain

Well-known member
Hello bigmessowires,

Could you try disconnecting the analog board from the logic board, then measure the voltages on the analog board connector? That would at least tell you which board you need to troubleshoot.
I have just tested voltage of the 5.00v line on the analog board connector and the reading was 0.30v. It sometimes fluctuated but stayed steady on 0.30v.

I hope this helps!

 

Blinkenlightz

Well-known member
I have just tested voltage of the 5.00v line on the analog board connector and the reading was 0.30v. It sometimes fluctuated but stayed steady on 0.30v.
I would highly recommend getting a copy of Macintosh Repair & Upgrade Secrets by Larry Pina if you can, there is a lot of discussion on testing voltages on the 128/512 and failed component identification.

Used copies seem pretty inexpensive at the moment: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0672484528/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

sadmanonatrain

Well-known member
Hello all,

At the moment I am using a copy of Larry Pina's 'The Dead Mac Scrolls'. It has a large section about early Macs (128k, 512k and Plus).

The problem I am having starts a page 21: 'The Mac does absolutely nothing. There is no startup bong. There are no unusual noises. The display is dark.

For this problem Mr Pina recommends:

Checking the in-circuit resistance of CR5 to asses the health of the flyback transformer. The resistance I measured was 0.04 (?).

Checking the in-circuit resistance of CR21. If the reading is 0/0 replace with heavy duty MBR360 rectifier. The resistance I measured was 0.03 (?).

Check/replace resistors R46, R47, R49 and R50.

When the Mac exhibits a 'flup flup flup' noise it is recommended that CR20 is replaced with a heavy duty MBR1045 rectifier.

I think it would be beneficial for me to replace CR20 and CR21 as the ones on my analog board don't look too healthy!

Hopefully the replacement parts suggested by Mr Pina are compatible with the International 240v analog board!

Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

 

bigmessowires

Well-known member
Look for a cheap Mac 512Ke or Mac Plus, then try swapping in its analog board for the 128K's analog board. They are compatible (assuming it's also a 240V model).

That could be a permanent solution, or if you really want to restore the 128K's analog board, at least you'll have a working version to compare it against.

 

sadmanonatrain

Well-known member
Hello all,

I have ordered replacement components for CR20 and CR21. The parts are the ones recommended by Larry Pina in 'The Dead Mac Scrolls'.

I should have them replaced by the middle of next week. I will report back with the results!

Look for a cheap Mac 512Ke or Mac Plus.
I don't know where you're based but there is no such thing as a 'cheap' Macintosh 128k here in the UK!

The only reason I got mine for a good price is because I won an auction for an SE but it turned out to be a 128k!

Thank you

 

bigmessowires

Well-known member
I don't know where you're based but there is no such thing as a 'cheap' Macintosh 128k here in the UK!
Exactly, which is why I suggested looking for a 512Ke or Plus instead. They typically can be had for $50 or less, maybe free. But the analog board is compatible with the Mac 128K.

 

sadmanonatrain

Well-known member
Hello all,

I've replaced CR20 and CR21 but the same problem still remains; no activity from the Macintosh.

On the upside, I can hear a quiet electronic buzz coming from the Macintosh.

After the repair I measured the voltages from the floppy port:

+5v = 0.68

+12v =0.05

-12v =1.75

I think I'm getting close to a solution but I don't know where to look next!

Could it be a failed flyback transformer? Or some other component?

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

bigmessowires

Well-known member
I still think your best route is to search out a Mac 512K or Mac Plus, and swap in its analog board for yours. I just looked on eBay UK, and a Plus can be had for as little as 24 pounds.

Failing that - you need to concentrate on the analog board, and isolate one problem at a time. I would suggest taking the logic board out and putting it away on a shelf. You don't want to confuse things by taking floppy port measurements, if there's potentially a problem with the logic board *and* the analog board. So you can put away the logic board, and take your measurements from the motherboard connector on the analog board.

Next, not to be rude, but are you sure you're using the voltmeter correctly? The readings you listed don't make a lot of sense, and you put question marks after others. Try using the voltmeter to measure some unrelated stuff on another computer, and make sure the voltages check out OK, to be sure the voltmeter is set up correctly and you're getting the expected numbers.

Now if you're still getting wacky voltages from the analog board, you can continue following the steps from Pina's book, or just go ahead and replace all the capacitors. These seem to be the parts that typically fail - though I can't say I've done this personally. Most advice you find about repairing the Mac Plus or Mac 512K analog board should also apply to your 128K.

Lastly, try removing the PRAM battery, just to rule that out.

 

sadmanonatrain

Well-known member
Hello all,

Yesterday I replaced the four 100uf 200v filter capacitors with 100uf 400v 'High Voltage' ones. I was not sure if these would be suitable replacements but I replaced them anyway!

But I still get nothing when I turn the Macintosh on! The second time I turned it on the switch tripped. So I'll do some more investigating!

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

td75

Active member
These UK analog boards are a nightmare to repair! I replaced many parts and ended up shocking myself twice! There was high voltage going through the heatsinks and battery bay and not sure why. I ended up buying a working complete 512k off Gumtree for £50 and it had the exact same analog board as 128k. I hope to get the faulty board working one day and hope you have more success with this!

 

bigmessowires

Well-known member
The second time I turned it on the switch tripped.
I'm not sure what that means - are you referring to the fuse on the analog board?

I'm assuming you've decided against replacing the whole analog board with one scavenged from a Plus. In that case, a copy of "Macintosh Repair and Upgrade Secrets" would probably be helpful, as Blinkenlightz suggested earlier. I know you're working off the Dead Mac Scrolls, which I haven't seen, so I can't really compare the two. Macintosh Repair and Upgrade Secrets has a full chapter (15 pages) on diagnosing dead sets - ones that do absolutely nothing when powered on, including schematics of the relevant circuitry that you can use for troubleshooting. It also has a table of every part on the analog board, with a list of possible replacement parts. I was able to find a used copy of the book for $4.

Do you have any evidence of burning or blackening in the video section, in the upper half of the analog board? This is his first diagnostic test.

Assuming the video section looks good, Pina's first suggestion is to check Q11 (which is labeled Q10 on the international board). This involves desoldering it from the board in order to test it. According to the book, if you measure the resistance between pins, a good part will be infinity between emitter and collector (in either direction), about 650 ohms between base and emitter in one direction and infinity in the other direction, and about 650 ohms between base and collector in one direction and infinity in the other direction. A bad part will measure about 150 ohms between the base and emitter in both directions.

His second suggestion is to check R52 (R55 on international board). On the international board, this is a 20 kOhm 1/2 watt resistor, 5% tolerance. Also check R46 (1W 22 ohm, in-circuit reading should be between 18-20 ohm), R47, R49, and R50 (all 1/4W 1.5 ohm, in-circuit reading should be about 1 ohm), and R51 (1/4W 15 ohm, in-circuit reading about 12 ohm).

Pina also suggests checking Q8 (test the same way as Q10) and CR21, as well as the power switch itself, and the power cord.

Photos

You may also be dealing with damaged traces on the circuit board. If you see any that look damaged, try testing the continuity between the two ends of the trace to make sure it reads 0 ohms. If not, you can try repairing it with a wire.

It might also help to post some high-res photos of your analog board here, to see if anyone else can make suggestions based on visual inspection.

Keep in mind I've never done this myself, and I'm just parroting what's in Macintosh Repair and Upgrade Secrets. :)

 

sadmanonatrain

Well-known member
bigmessowires,

At the moment I am busy working my way through your suggestions from 'Macintosh Repair and Upgrade Secrets'. I'll definitely source and replace the resistors that are mentioned!

Also I have taken various photographs of the Analog Board for all to see:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6j6P7lBWw-BMkIwUk85aW9RRUU&usp=sharing

It looks like there is some damage to resistor R48. It is brown in the middle where the black band is.

I hope this helps!

 

bigmessowires

Well-known member
CR20 looks like it has a leg that doesn't connect to anything? Maybe it's just a strange reflection in the photo, but I see one leg that goes through a hole in the board, and another leg that extends towards the adjacent capacitor, but then just ends without connecting to anything. What's that? Doesn't look good. :-(

 

sadmanonatrain

Well-known member
bigmessowires,

CR20 looks like it has a leg that doesn't connect to anything? Maybe it's just a strange reflection in the photo, but I see one leg that goes through a hole in the board, and another leg that extends towards the adjacent capacitor, but then just ends without connecting to anything. What's that? Doesn't look good.
At board reference CR20 there is only one hole. Larry Pina suggests a 'MBR1045' as a replacement part, which has two legs.

A fellow member has photographs of such a analog board with the upgraded component. Pin three goes through the hole on the analog board and pin one is unused.

What you are seeing in correct; I just haven't cut the leg off pin one!

 
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