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Mac 512k -> 1024k ?

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
I saw a tutorial on this site http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/images/plus_analog.PDF, I did it but noway, it doesn't work :(
Are you sure you did it right? Because this is the thing I was going to point out based on the title of your thread. If you google around you might be able to find a version of these instructions that has illustrations, perhaps either you miswired something or, if no one else can confirm that they've followed this exact PDF and had it work, this particular account has a problem. Piggybacking ICs is the standard method for getting extra RAM in a 512k if you're not using an expansion board.

Regarding the expansion boards, I'm *pretty* sure that at least some of them work with 512k on board. (The Dove cards, for instance?)

 

tjjq44

Well-known member
I couldn't find any more detailled instructions on google (I spend many hours searching)... I also think it doesn't work since the only chip added is a 74LS138 in order to manage 2 more columns (CAS). In all the third party upgrade I saw (in photo) there is much more chips added!

Regarding the expansion boards, I'm *pretty* sure that at least some of them work with 512k on board. (The Dove cards, for instance?)
Yes but I want it to work with stock 64k rom too ;)

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
I couldn't find any more detailled instructions on google (I spend many hours searching)... I also think it doesn't work since the only chip added is a 74LS138 in order to manage 2 more columns (CAS). In all the third party upgrade I saw (in photo) there is much more chips added!
Why would it need more than a single 'LS138? The 74LS138 is a 1-of-8 demultiplexer, IE, based on the input of three "address" lines (basically an octal data input) in activates one of 8 output lines. Comparing the circuit description in the PDF to the datasheet I see what they're doing here is they're using 4 outputs on the '138: each row of 8 chips has its own CAS probe (I kind of wonder why it's wired that way instead of all 16 together, but maybe it has to be because the original circuit supports byte-size operations?), so there's the 2 original lines *plus* the two added ones. So that's only half the capacity of the chip. (Reading the datasheet for the RAM CAS basically doubles as chip select, so the way the circuit works is it putting the '138 in a location where it can watch A19 and act as a switch to change whether the first block of RAM or the one you added is enabled when the CPU is looking at the given address range.)

As to why the third-party boards you're looking at have more chips on them, well, you'd have to ask the designers. I googled up a picture of a Dove 1MB card and it only has three chips on it, that being a mutiplexer, a demultiplexor, and a dual NOR gate. I'm *guessing* the reason it has the (slight) amount of extra circuitry is because of how it installs by pressing over the existing chips without requiring a trace cut means it has to do some additional chip select work you get for free with the piggyback design.

Yes but I want it to work with stock 64k rom too ;)
There's nothing about the Dove boards that depends on the ROM version, unless the 64K ROM doesn't bother trying to test for the presence of RAM above the 512k mark. If that's the case then no mod will work.

 

tjjq44

Well-known member
To be honest, I haven't already bought the 16 256kb ram chips, I wanted to test the circuitry before. I even tried to ground the A0 input of the LS138 in order to inhibit the (not installed) additional ram chips, this way it should work like a stock 512k but all I got was a scrambled startup sound and a jailbarred sad mac :( Luckily after removing the mod everything was fine!

 

Gryphel

Active member
There's nothing about the Dove boards that depends on the ROM version, unless the 64K ROM doesn't bother trying to test for the presence of RAM above the 512k mark. If that's the case then no mod will work.
The 64K ROM has a test for memory size between offsets 0x2DE and 0x2F6, which has only a single conditional branch for distinguishing 128k and 512k.
This code can be looked at with FDisasm.

 

CharlieFrown

Well-known member
To be honest, I haven't already bought the 16 256kb ram chips, I wanted to test the circuitry before. I even tried to ground the A0 input of the LS138 in order to inhibit the (not installed) additional ram chips, this way it should work like a stock 512k but all I got was a scrambled startup sound and a jailbarred sad mac :( Luckily after removing the mod everything was fine!
Hi can you tell me where did you find them ? I need 256 kbit 16 pin chips for my Dove Mac Snap card.

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
The 64K ROM has a test for memory size between offsets 0x2DE and 0x2F6, which has only a single conditional branch for distinguishing 128k and 512k.
Okay, then if that's the case you can't have more than 512k with the 64k ROM. (Unless it's possible to write some sort of enabler to raise the RAM ceiling after the OS loads, which I imagine would be non-trivial.)

 

tjjq44

Well-known member
The 64K ROM has a test for memory size between offsets 0x2DE and 0x2F6, which has only a single conditional branch for distinguishing 128k and 512k.

This code can be looked at with FDisasm.
 

Okay, then if that's the case you can't have more than 512k with the 64k ROM. (Unless it's possible to write some sort of enabler to raise the RAM ceiling after the OS loads, which I imagine would be non-trivial.)
I'm mostly a hardware guy, I don't think I'll be able to modify the rom at all (assembly language is chinese for me) :(

I'd rather give up on this project (unless one day someone on this forum who has already succeed in upgrading his 512k mac to 1024k or more without using 128k roms gives me a tutorial).


 
Hi can you tell me where did you find them ? I need 256 kbit 16 pin chips for my Dove Mac Snap card.

Here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-32-chips-256K-x-1-DRAM-Memory-NEC-D41256C-16-Pin-DIP-80ns-PC-MAC-/172873188904?hash=item28400b8628:g:SI8AAOSwTLlZwTQ6

Or here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-pcs-x-D41256C-10-IC-DIP16-DRAM-256K-x-1-Dynamic-RAM-256K-x-1-D41256C10-NEC-/322204262326?hash=item4b04dedfb6:g:pAoAAOSwdzVXldRl

 
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