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LCIII+ SCSI2SD + external BlueSCSI DB25 (termination issue?)

ToneMalone

Active member
Hey all! Just got my External DB25 BlueSCSI V2 in the mail today. Super excited to get wifi working on my LCIII+ and wanted a simple way to copy files from Basilisk II emulator.
I have internal SCSI2SD v5.1 setup as follows
SCSI[0] 2GB boot HFS (MacOS 8.1/ MacOS 7.5.5)
SCSI[1] 10GB HFS+ (stuff1)
SCSI[2] 10GB HFS+ (stuff2)
Termination ON (will not boot with it disabled; does not see drive ( ? floppy on boot))

this works great.

when I insert the BlueSCSI and boot, the mouse freezes almost immediately, nothing else happens.
I've also tried using my ZIP drive set to SCSI ID 5/6 and termination on/off. This will change the chime depending on termination (error chime?), but freezes either way.

I've configured my bluescsi.ini as follows

[SCSI]
WiFiSSID=TELUS3206-2.4G
WiFiPassword=**************
Debug=1


in root folder of SD card I have
HD30_512 2048 MB.hda
NE4.hda
bluescsi.ini

Here is my log.txt after attempted boot

Platform: BlueSCSI Pico
FW Version: 2023.10.12-release Oct 13 2023 02:55:19
Flash chip size: 2048 kB

=== SD Card Info ===
SD card detected, exFAT volume size: 61053 MB
SD Name: 00000, MID: 0x1B, OID: 0x53 0x4D
[144ms]
[144ms] === Global Config ===
[146ms] Reading configuration from bluescsi.ini
[146ms] Active configuration:
[146ms] DBG -- SelectionDelay: 255
[147ms] DBG -- EnableUnitAttention is off
[147ms] DBG -- EnableSCSI2 is on
[148ms] DBG -- EnableSelLatch is off
[148ms] DBG -- MapLunsToIDs is off
[148ms] -- Debug is enabled
[149ms] DBG -- Parity is enabled
[149ms] DBG -- ReinsertCDOnInquiry is disabled
[183ms]
[183ms] === Finding images in / ===
[185ms] == Opening /HD30_512 2048 MB.hda for ID: 3 LUN: 0
[188ms] DBG ---- Read prefetch enabled: 8192 bytes
[189ms] DBG ---- Valid Macintosh Device Image detected.
[190ms] ---- Image ready
[190ms] == Opening /NE4.hda for ID: 4 LUN: 0
[194ms] ---- Configuring as network based on image name
[194ms] DBG ---- Read prefetch enabled: 8192 bytes
[195ms] ---- Image ready
[195ms]
[195ms] === ROM Drive ===
[195ms] Platform supports ROM drive up to 1692 kB
[196ms] ---- ROM drive image not detected
[196ms]
[196ms] === Configured SCSI Devices ===
[196ms] * ID: 3, BlockSize: 512, Type: Fixed, Quirks: Apple, Size: 2097216kB
[197ms] * ID: 4, Type: Network, Quirks: Apple
[956ms]
[956ms] === Network Initialization ===
[957ms] Unique board id: e6 61 41 04 03 5f ba 2e
[1820ms] Wi-Fi MAC: 00:80:19:04:03:5F
[1820ms] Connecting to Wi-Fi SSID "TELUS3206-2.4G" with WPA/WPA2 PSK
[1837ms]
[1837ms] Initialization complete!
[1903ms] INFO: Pico Voltage: 3.232V.
[3335ms] DBG BUS RESET
[7409ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[7410ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[7702ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[7702ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[7992ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[7993ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 4
[7994ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read6
[7994ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x08 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x00
[7995ms] in scsiNetworkCommand with command 0x08 (size 1)
[7995ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 2 CHECK_CONDITION, sense 0x00000000
[8001ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8002ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8003ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8003ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 4
[8004ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read6
[8004ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x08 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x00
[8005ms] in scsiNetworkCommand with command 0x08 (size 1)
[8005ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 2 CHECK_CONDITION, sense 0x00000000
[8013ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8014ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8015ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8015ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 3
[8016ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read6
[8016ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x08 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x00
[8017ms] DBG ------ Read 1x512 starting at 0
[8018ms] DBG ---- DATA_IN
[8019ms] DBG ---- Total IN: 512 OUT: 0 CHECKSUM: 44262
[8019ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 0 GOOD
[8027ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8027ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8028ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8053ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8053ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 3
[8055ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read6
[8055ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x08 0x00 0x00 0x40 0x13 0x00
[8055ms] DBG ------ Read 19x512 starting at 64
[8056ms] DBG ---- DATA_IN
[8069ms] DBG ---- Total IN: 9728 OUT: 0 CHECKSUM: 39133
[8069ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 0 GOOD
[8077ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8077ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8078ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8078ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 3
[8080ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read6
[8080ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x08 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x01 0x00
[8080ms] DBG ------ Read 1x512 starting at 1
[8081ms] DBG ---- DATA_IN
[8083ms] DBG ---- Total IN: 512 OUT: 0 CHECKSUM: 51653
[8083ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 0 GOOD
[8088ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8088ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8090ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8090ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 3
[8091ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read6
[8091ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x08 0x00 0x00 0x02 0x01 0x00
[8092ms] DBG ------ Read 1x512 starting at 2
[8093ms] DBG ---- DATA_IN
[8093ms] DBG ------ Found 1 sectors in prefetch cache
[8094ms] DBG ---- Total IN: 512 OUT: 0 CHECKSUM: 27143
[8094ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 0 GOOD
[8100ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8100ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8101ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8105ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8105ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 3
[8107ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read6
[8107ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x08 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x01 0x00
[8107ms] DBG ------ Read 1x512 starting at 1
[8108ms] DBG ---- DATA_IN
[8109ms] DBG ---- Total IN: 512 OUT: 0 CHECKSUM: 51653
[8110ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 0 GOOD
[8114ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8114ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8115ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8115ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 3
[8117ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read6
[8117ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x08 0x00 0x00 0x02 0x01 0x00
[8117ms] DBG ------ Read 1x512 starting at 2
[8118ms] DBG ---- DATA_IN
[8118ms] DBG ------ Found 1 sectors in prefetch cache
[8119ms] DBG ---- Total IN: 512 OUT: 0 CHECKSUM: 27143
[8119ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 0 GOOD
[8124ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8124ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8125ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8125ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8125ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 3
[8127ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read6
[8127ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x08 0x00 0x00 0x03 0x01 0x00
[8127ms] DBG ------ Read 1x512 starting at 3
[8128ms] DBG ---- DATA_IN
[8128ms] DBG ------ Found 1 sectors in prefetch cache
[8129ms] DBG ---- Total IN: 512 OUT: 0 CHECKSUM: 55902
[8129ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 0 GOOD
[8132ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8133ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8134ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8137ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8137ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 3
[8138ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read10
[8138ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x28 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x01
[8139ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x00
[8139ms] DBG ------ Read 1x512 starting at 1
[8140ms] DBG ---- DATA_IN
[8142ms] DBG ---- Total IN: 512 OUT: 0 CHECKSUM: 51653
[8142ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 0 GOOD
[8147ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8147ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8148ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8148ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 3
[8150ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read10
[8150ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x28 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x02
[8150ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x00
[8151ms] DBG ------ Read 1x512 starting at 2
[8151ms] DBG ---- DATA_IN
[8152ms] DBG ------ Found 1 sectors in prefetch cache
[8152ms] DBG ---- Total IN: 512 OUT: 0 CHECKSUM: 27143
[8152ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 0 GOOD
[8157ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8157ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8158ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8158ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8158ms] DBG ---- SELECTION: 3
[8160ms] DBG ---- COMMAND: Read10
[8160ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x28 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x03
[8160ms] DBG ------ OUT: 0x00 0x00 0x01 0x00
[8161ms] DBG ------ Read 1x512 starting at 3
[8162ms] DBG ---- DATA_IN
[8162ms] DBG ------ Found 1 sectors in prefetch cache
[8162ms] DBG ---- Total IN: 512 OUT: 0 CHECKSUM: 55902
[8163ms] DBG ---- STATUS: 0 GOOD
[8167ms] DBG ---- MESSAGE_IN
[8167ms] DBG ------ IN: 0x00
[8168ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8170ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8173ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8177ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8177ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8179ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8216ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8216ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8216ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8218ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8221ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8221ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8221ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8223ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8227ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8227ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8227ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8229ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8232ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8233ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8233ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8235ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8237ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8237ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8237ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8239ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8244ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8244ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8244ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8246ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8250ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8250ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8250ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8252ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8254ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8255ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8255ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE
[8257ms] DBG -- BUS_BUSY
[8261ms] DBG -- BUS_FREE

What am I missing here? a conflict on - SELECTION: 3 ?
Is this SCSI id3?


I've also tried renaming image such as
HD50_512 2048 MB.hda
HD60_512 2048 MB.hda


(I also have an SE/30 with internal ZuluSCSI, i have not tried it with the BlueSCSI yet)

Any help is much appreaciated!!!
Cheers - Tom
 

MrFahrenheit

Well-known member
Just to be clear, first off, the SCSI bus internally and externally is one and the same. The port on the back of your Mac just extends it out.

The rules for SCSI are really quite simple:

1. Anything that you connect outside the Mac must have termination on the last device, and only the last device.

2. The internal SCSI bus must also be terminated, usually after the drive (or the drive itself) if there is one present. If there isn’t an internal drive, termination sometimes must either be added on the connector itself on the motherboard, or some motherboards have termination packs/chips on the internal bus before the connector and don’t need to add. Examples of Macs without termination on the motherboard are the original LC, which shipped with a termination block installed on the connector if sold without an internal hard disk.

3. SCSI IDs must all be unique.

Aside from “voodoo” of weird devices, those are the hard and fast rules.
 

ToneMalone

Active member
Thanks for the reply! This does clear things up a bit.
I am able to access my BlueSCSI drive when booting off a zip disk confirming it's operational, however the internal SCSI2SD is not recognized. I can only seem to get one, or the other.
I have termination enabled on the internal drive, I can use this with the zip drive, or I can use the bluescsi with the zip drive, but never internal + bluescsi, or all 3. My BlueSCSI device is a v2 DB25 and there is no option or jumpers on the board to enable or disable termination. I read that termination is always enabled. So, in theory it should plug and play on it's own, or after my zip drive with the zip drive termination disabled. I've set the BlueSCSI to SCSI ID 7 and now I get folder icon without the flashing question mark...

Driving me a little crazy hahah!! Must be voodoo or it's just getting late lol

Seems like there's a conflict between the internal SCSI2SD and the external BlueSCSI, they all have unique SCSI IDs however.
Will try this with my SE/30 tomorrow, if I resolve I will certainly post back.
 

MrFahrenheit

Well-known member
Thanks for the reply! This does clear things up a bit.
I am able to access my BlueSCSI drive when booting off a zip disk confirming it's operational, however the internal SCSI2SD is not recognized. I can only seem to get one, or the other.
I have termination enabled on the internal drive, I can use this with the zip drive, or I can use the bluescsi with the zip drive, but never internal + bluescsi, or all 3. My BlueSCSI device is a v2 DB25 and there is no option or jumpers on the board to enable or disable termination. I read that termination is always enabled. So, in theory it should plug and play on it's own, or after my zip drive with the zip drive termination disabled. I've set the BlueSCSI to SCSI ID 7 and now I get folder icon without the flashing question mark...

Driving me a little crazy hahah!! Must be voodoo or it's just getting late lol

Seems like there's a conflict between the internal SCSI2SD and the external BlueSCSI, they all have unique SCSI IDs however.
Will try this with my SE/30 tomorrow, if I resolve I will certainly post back.
SCSI ID 7 is what the Macintosh is.

There are 7 addressable SCSI IDs to use, 0-6. Never use 7.

In regards to BlueSCSI, it should always be the very last device on your scsi chain, because of the permanent termination. If you are using it externally with your Zip, it should always be connected to the Zip port not the Mac, and disable termination on the Zip drive.

You should only ever have two devices terminated maximum, one internal one external. The Mac itself terminates at the connector (generally, there are exceptions like I mentioned like with the LC).

Externally, only one terminator or terminated device, at the end. Internally usually no device is fine or last device terminated. This is the way.
 

DotUnderscore

New member
Given that this is a WiFi BlueSCSI, your system might not be able to provide enough power on the termpower line to run both SCSI device emulators at the same time. It's only intended for running the terminator blocks to begin with, and now it's running termination plus device emulators. Try providing USB power to the BlueSCSI, or provide floppy power to the SCSI2SD, or both, and see what happens.
 

ToneMalone

Active member
Bingo bango bongo! We're in like flint! Everything is working harmoniously. I really appreaciate the input, I was able to hone in on this issue and get a better understanding of the SCSI bus in my Macintosh.
However, in order to get this to work, I had to enable termination on the SCSI2SD, change the ID's of the SCSI2SD from 0,1,2, ----> 2,3,4.
I then changed the BLUESCSI to ID's 0,1 and ZIP drive ID 5 termination switched off.
This seems to slightly go against the grain of my new found knowledge but I won't complain. I maybe do not have a full understanding of the BLUESCSI device itself, but hey it's functioning just as I'd hoped!
For reference I am powering the internal SCSI2SD with the floppy power, and the BLUESCSI is not requiring extra juice via USB.

I've attached an image of SCSI Probe so it's easy to see the configuration that is working.

Cheers all !
 

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MrFahrenheit

Well-known member
Glad you got it working.

The way you describe the setup, and you’re saying it goes against the grain of newfound scsi knowledge is strange.

The way you describe it setup, with Zip drive not having termination enabled, and BlueSCSI after the Zip is correct.
 

ToneMalone

Active member
Glad you got it working.

The way you describe the setup, and you’re saying it goes against the grain of newfound scsi knowledge is strange.

The way you describe it setup, with Zip drive not having termination enabled, and BlueSCSI after the Zip is correct.
lol I may be dense here, but when we say before and after are we talking the SCSI ID? it makes sense to have the termination disabled on the zip, but I have BlueSCSI on ID's 0,1 and the zip is on ID 5. so the BlueSCSI is before the zip here? Also I have termination enabled on the internal drive with ID's 2,3,4 right smack in the middle.
 

MrFahrenheit

Well-known member
Before and after physically on the chain. Not based off scsi ID.

SCSI ID is just a numbered address so the computer knows which device is which. Where they physically go based on each other is somewhat irrelevant

Termination is a physical electrical termination of the signal. It goes at each end of the chain, to prevent electrical signals from echoing and leaking. Like plugging a hole in a pipe.

The physical placement of the terminator has nothing to do with the numeric assignment of SCSI IDs.
 

ToneMalone

Active member
You're a gem dude! I've read a lot but it was never explained to me in this way! So yes, I have the BlueSCSI at the end of the chain, after the zip drive. The beginning of the chain would be my internal SCSI2SD then which is also terminated. So that plugs both ends of the pipe. I am only slightly curious why swapping the ID's would make all the difference then. My initial attempts did not use ID 7 ( I see it's the macintosh in my scsiprobe). Naturally I tried all the different configurations I could conjure up before writing in. I did however notice I have a switch on the zip drive that says 5 or 6, and no matter which position it's in, it's always #5 in SCSI probe.
 

MrFahrenheit

Well-known member
Likely the SCSI ID switch on your Zip is busted inside. Those switches are notorious for going bad.

Glad we got it all sorted out for you.

All you need to remember is what I wrote earlier just that termination is at both ends of the pipe to prevent leaks. Lol.

Sometimes SCSI IDs can be voodoo. In the old days it was common that with enough complex SCSI devices, some IDs just wouldn’t work together with others. It was actually called SCSI Voodoo, due to its mysterious nature.

I, however, never encountered any voodoo. I had an internal SCSI hard drive (0), an external CDROM (3), a Zip (5), a Jaz (6), external SCSI hard drive (1), and a CD Burner (2) and it all cooperated just fine for me.

And today it still does.
 

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ToneMalone

Active member
Wild! Now there's a setup! Love seeing everything working together. Goes to show when you follow the right steps things fall into place lol
Thanks again for your patience; I'll keep that one locked down as my Macintosh adventures are bound to continue. I picked up a DB25 data switch at a thrift-store in the city a while back, just hooked my SE/30 up to the mix and I can say this was a WAY easier go around to get the BlueSCSI/zip operational on that. I already have an ethernet hookup for the LCIII so I'll use the wifi on the SE/30.
Something about browsing the web on Frogfind and having a coffee reading 68k.news just makes me happy


My workshed bench is filling up, above the crt is my data switch and zip w/ bluescsi on top of that!
 

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MrFahrenheit

Well-known member
How is the DB25 switch connected? You have to be really careful with SCSI because it’s not hot pluggable. You will fry your SCSI chip if things connect or disconnect with anything powered on.
 

ToneMalone

Active member
Absolutely, I wouldn't dare flick the switch unless everything is powered down! The switch has three ports, A, B, and Main.
A is hooked into the LCIII, B into the SE/30, Main into the zip drive.
Wifi is working great on the SE/30, and if I want I can copy files to the BlueSCSI, then turn off the SE/30, flip switch, turn on the LCIII and voila it now has the BlueSCSI and zip drive accessible. I can also pull the SD card from the BlueSCSI (while everything is off) and mount the .hda image directly from the SD card in BasiliskII on Windows 10, much faster for getting software loaded and unstuffing files.

Now you have me worried though, as I leave the AC adapter for my zip drive plugged in when I flip the switch. To me this is a non-issue as both Macs are off and it would be the same as hooking up a zip drive directly, and then plugging in the AC adapter.

If both Macs are running they do not conflict as the data switch will null the inactive cable.

So far so good lol
 

Forrest

Well-known member
Was the swich box advertised to work with SCSI? Back in the day, I remember seeing a swich box with 3 DB25 connectors, and this was advertised as a RS232 serial switch box.
 

ToneMalone

Active member
No clue, it was 5 dollars at the value village! No information on the box. Looks just like this unit here. Data Transfer Switch It does say "Wired straight-thru in a pin-to-pin configuration" on the website; I have not pulled it apart to verify mine works like this but I'm sure it's the same.
 

Forrest

Well-known member
That swichbox is designed for slower speed Parallel and Serial Devices, not SCSI. If it was me, I would disconnect it from your SCSI devices.
 

ToneMalone

Active member
interesting, is it an issue with resistance due to the length/ size of the wires? Sounds like its entirely mechanical and switches all 25 pins between A and B. I have not experienced any issues with the data switch. Is there any risks?
 

MrFahrenheit

Well-known member
You're a gem dude! I've read a lot but it was never explained to me in this way! So yes, I have the BlueSCSI at the end of the chain, after the zip drive. The beginning of the chain would be my internal SCSI2SD then which is also terminated. So that plugs both ends of the pipe. I am only slightly curious why swapping the ID's would make all the difference then. My initial attempts did not use ID 7 ( I see it's the macintosh in my scsiprobe). Naturally I tried all the different configurations I could conjure up before writing in. I did however notice I have a switch on the zip drive that says 5 or 6, and no matter which position it's in, it's always #5 in SCSI probe.

Just send for my new book

IMG_8924.jpeg

Only $19.95 plus postage and handling.
 
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