Just purchased Mac 512k

[lumpydog]

Hi:

My first Mac (actually my first computer) was a Mac 512K - I took it to college with me and used it for four years - a great Mac that served me well. I took unreal good care of it - stored it a my folks... and they tossed it 8-o . I eventually went to Business school and that required a Windows PC (I know....). Anyway, last year I had had enough of Windows/PCs and went back to Mac - I took my family with me and we now have 5 Macs in our household with a 6th on the way.

The 6th and latest addition - I purchased it on ebay - an original Mac 512K - being sold by the original owner... She used it for 3-4 years and stored it. It looks to be in excellent condition. I have some questions:

1) This is my first vintage Mac - anything I need to do before firing it up?

2) Are there instructions on how to open it up somewhere? I ordered a new PRAM battery - the original is surely toast.

3) What else should I consider....

Regards,

Lumpy

P.S. First post here....

 

[Apostrophe]

Hey,

Welcome to the forums! I have learned almost all I know about computers from this forum...

I have two Mac SE's and so have a bit of experience dealing with Compact Macs. All I can say for that 512k, make sure you have the power cord, keyboard, and mouse, and you're good to go! Although I would recommend plugging it in for about 10 mins prior to use, as this will 'warm up' the electrical components and reduce strain on them when it's booted up. (Although if you live somewhere warm or even room temperature then this shouldn't be a problem. Just make sure that the Mac isn't cold when you boot it up.)

For a 512k, you'll probably need a system disk--512k's shipped without any sort of hard drive, so unless you have an external, you'll need a system floppy disk, or else you'll never get past the floppy disk question mark.

And as for opening it up, you'll need a long Torx-15 screwdriver. There are two screws down in the recess and two at the bottom edges of the case. You'll need the length in that screwdriver to get to the screws down in the recess. I am also told that in earlier compacts like the 512k, there is a fifth screw concealed within the battery compartment. (Oh...wait, I guess you just need to open the battery compartment! But still, knowing how to take the full case off would still be useful)

After you get the screws out, you'll need to find a way to separate the outer case from the main unit. I personally just use my hands and a tiny bit of force (and I always start applying force at the top), but you may find a different method. Those cases do need a bit of force, though...they're tight on there, even w/out screws.

Hope that helps, and keep us posted!

-Apostrophe

 

[Dog Cow]

1) This is my first vintage Mac - anything I need to do before firing it up?

Have a really sexy party? I don't know. It's pretty exciting no matter what you do before. Expect a bit of a disappointment if you don't have a startup disk.

After you get the screws out, you'll need to find a way to separate the outer case from the main unit. I personally just use my hands and a tiny bit of force (and I always start applying force at the top), but you may find a different method. Those cases do need a bit of force, though...they're tight on there, even w/out screws.

I use the screwdriver itself. I'm left-handed, so I hold on to the handle of the case with my right hand. Then, with my left hand, I push down on the screw driver handle, which is still seated on the upper left screw (which is down inside the handle of the Mac case). I pull up with my right hand, and the case comes free.

 

[Flamingtoasters]

I believe you will need a 400k boot disk for your mac. Anything earlier than the SE FDHD cannot read modern floppies. You could either purchase the original disks or make them with another vintage mac compatible with 400k and 800k disks. You can find sites on the web that have older system software downloads.

 

[lumpydog]

Thanks for these responses.... Some additional information.

Apostrophe - thanks for the tip on the torx screwdriver. I'll get one. With regard to the battery. My understanding is that there is one on the logic board - I purchased a replacement for that battery - so yes, I need to open her up. There is also the backup battery that is accessible without opening the case.

Here is what was included with the my 512K

1) Mac 512K stock/no upgrades

2) Keyboard (original - non extended version)

3) Mouse (original)

4) Power chord

5) All original manuals

6) All original software (MacWrite, MacPaint, all System/Startup Disks)

7) Other software (MacHome, Spellswell)

8 Microsoft MacEnhancer http://www.macgeek.org/museum/macenhancer/

9) Cutting Edge brand 800K external drive

I'm thinking of getting an HD20... I never had one with my original system and always wanted one!

I'd love to get ahold of the highest version of the system software that is supported by the 512k - I have no way to make the 400k disks after downloading....

Lumpy

 

[JDW]

I'd love to get ahold of the highest version of the system software that is supported by the 512k

If so, you will find this thread of interest.

 

[Torbar]

The Mac 128k and 512k just have a little battery compartment that you open and put a new pram battery. No tools required.

 

[tomlee59]

The battery looks like an ordinary AA cell, but closer examination will reveal that it's a 4.5 volt, hard-and-expensive-to-find mutant. That said, some folks have reported success (for a time, at least) using an AA battery in a pinch.

 

[Scott Baret]

There is no battery on the logic board of a 512K, so you're good there.

The other battery (the 4.5V) really isn't all that expensive:

http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1546

Did you get any software with your "new" 512K? If you need software for it there is plenty on 400K disk for sale at B&R Computer:

www.noappleistoooldforus.com

You can also try eBay...at the very least I recommend you get MacPaint for this machine since it is the quintessential early Mac program (and probably one you remember quite well from your first 512K).

 

[lumpydog]

I ordered this battery from Radio Shack: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3249777

 

[istar1018]

Did you get any software with your "new" 512K? If you need software for it there is plenty on 400K disk for sale at B&R Computer:www.noappleistoooldforus.com

You can also try eBay...at the very least I recommend you get MacPaint for this machine since it is the quintessential early Mac program (and probably one you remember quite well from your first 512K).

Scott is absolutely right, however depending on how you feel about software licenses, a lot of this old software is available on the Internet. Apple used to have a policy of giving away free system software updates, with the thought that you got a license (and free upgrades) when you purchased your computer (up until System 7.1, according to wikipedia). Of course, this didn't necessarily apply to application SW. That logic (which may or may not work for you), allows you to download replacement versions of this older software. I see that you have original disks, but if there's a problem with one of them, B&R is not your only recourse.

Further, a lot of this old software is abandonware, which means the publishers are no longer offering it for legal purchase. Much of it is available on the internet in various locations. A lot of said publishers don't care if you download it - Scott will say "But that's illegal!" and indeed, he's right, but many of these companies are not interested in cracking down on downloads of 20-year-old software. Whether or not this is an option for you depends on your conscience and your perspective towards / fear of violating current copyright law.

 

[lumpydog]

istar - good info - thank you.

I just also purchased an HD20 on eBay. It has a later/supported Mac 512K OS on it and includes the HD20 Init disk... So I should have a few options to boot from. The HD20 also comes with a bunch of programs already on it... Should be fun.

Regarding third party software available for download. I will look into this - my challenge - getting it on a 400K or 800K floppy. The good news here is that I have access to a Mac with System 8 with a CDROM and a floppy...

I think I can get the downloads onto a CD onto the System 8 Mac and then onto the floppy.

If system 8 wont support this, I can downgrade to system 7....

 

[equill]

The System that you can get going on your Mac depends on the processor (a given), the amount of installed RAM (the Mac's name is a dead giveaway) and the kind of startup volume you can create for the Mac.

Without a RAM upgrade to at least 1MB (Dove MacSnap, scarce), don't aim any higher than System 6.0.8. An HD20 makes a nice home for your System Folder. JDW's link will give you background gen for download of 6.0.8, but its installation has the hurdle of 400kB/800kB floppy drives to overcome. Your acquisition of the HD20 may imply that 128kB ROMs came with it, or had previously been installed in the 512K. Do you know whether either of these is true? The ability to handle 800kB FDDs would make dealing with software that much easier.

de

 

[Mac128]

don't aim any higher than System 6.0.8. An HD20 makes a nice home for your System Folder. JDW's link will give you background gen for download of 6.0.8, but its installation has the hurdle of 400kB/800kB floppy drives to overcome. Your acquisition of the HD20 may imply that 128kB ROMs came with it, or had previously been installed in the 512K.

JDW's link will also tell you that a stock 512K will NOT run anything above system 4.1/Finder 6.0. A 512Ke can run System 6.0.x max. So the question lingers ... especially since his 512K came with a third party 800K drive which needs either the 128K ROMs or the HD20 INIT.

The good news is that the 512K can use AppleTalk with OS 8, which makes transferring files to the HD20 easy. ALternately you can try the much slower MacTerminal method from any computer, Windows, Mac or Linux.

 

[lumpydog]

Equil/Mac128

Some interesting comments on you part. I've done a lot of research and have some similar questions about the ROM chip in my (now in-transit) 512K

A few things:

1) The woman that I bought the 512K from said she did not think it had been upgraded - yet, she did tell me that the Cutting Edge-brand external floppy that was included was an 800K drive. Hmmm maybe she had a boot disk that had an HFS aware system/finder - like the HD20 Init. Such a disk was not mentioned by the seller.

2) I purchased the HD20 separately, from a different seller. It does come with an HD20 Init disk (a copy of one) and the seller also stated that it has System 6 on it. He advertised that it would work with the 512k... Having researched the 512k, I've read extensive threads on the fact that the 512K will not boot system 6 due to the 64K ROM limitations. I exchanged emails with him and he insists the HD20 will allow a stock 512K to boot into system 6. I doubt it will if I have a stock (64K) system. If that is the case, I can boot using the 512K's regular startup disk and then swap out the HD20's system files to a system that works with the stock 512K.

3) When I do get my 512K (Next Wed) how do I tell how much ROM is installed? - I'm wondering if it may not contain a 128K chip. It would be great and a bummer at the same time. I wanted a stock/original system, but it would be nice to not have to use the HD20 Init disk to boot up and see the HD20 drive and the 800K floppy drive and use system 6...

Final question - I have access to a Leopard Mac with no floppy. AND my father's old non-internet connected Power PC (8500 series I think) that is running system 8 and has a floppy and CD ROM drive. Can I download Mac 512K software on my Leopard Mac, burn it to a CD, take it to the Power PC, and create an 800K or 400K floppy for use on my 512K? I can downgrade the Power PC to system 7 if necessary.

That's a lot... having fun diving back into the the intricacies of the old Macs...

Lumpy

 

[equill]

When you have your M0001 in front of you, opened with your new long-shafted Torx-15 and case-cracker, or Dog Cow's method above, you will be able to get a great deal of diagnostic info. from Mac128's http://www.mac128.com/m0001 to guide your investigations.

The ROMs may be identified with the stencilled 'HI' and 'LO' on the board, but, whether or no, they will be themselves numbered as 342-0341 and 342-0342 if they are 128kB, or 342-0220 and 342-0221 if they are 64kB. I hadn't realized that the Mac was not yet in your hands, so our further questions will have to wait for that union and your inspection.

de

 

[Mac128]

1) the Cutting Edge-brand external floppy that was included was an 800K drive. Hmmm maybe she had a boot disk that had an HFS aware system/finder - like the HD20 Init. Such a disk was not mentioned by the seller.

Apple's 3.5 External drive will work on a 512K without a special startup disk. It will also use 800K MFS formatted disks. It is possible that the Cutting Edge drive works similarly without using HFS.

2) I exchanged emails with him and he insists the HD20 will allow a stock 512K to boot into system 6. I doubt it will if I have a stock (64K) system. If that is the case, I can boot using the 512K's regular startup disk and then swap out the HD20's system files to a system that works with the stock 512K.

Well if JDW had not done such exhaustive tests, I would wonder, but this seller is WRONG. Apple technically dropped ALL support for the HD20 starting with System 6. You will be able to reformat and copy a new system file onto the HD20 easily. You just won't be able to boot up from it.

3) When I do get my 512K (Next Wed) how do I tell how much ROM is installed? I'm wondering if it may not contain a 128K chip. It would be great and a bummer at the same time.

As I have pointed out from time to time, there is no reason to use 64K ROMs unless you have some specific software that requires them (the original Guided Tour is not supported by 128Ks), or want to specifically push the limits of 64K technology. You can always pick up some 64K ROMs on a "dead" logicboard offered for sale on eBay from time to time. The ROMs on those boards are almost always good. But the 128K ROM's give you the ability to boot the HD20 which if you are using should make your life somewhat easier.

The EASIEST way to determine which ROM is in the Mac is to press the rear "debugger" key. If it is a 128K ROM, it will return a ">" character. If a 64K ROM it will return a System error dialogue box (the 128K ROM has a built-in debugger). You can use a paper-clip if there is no programmer's switch. You don't have to open the case or have any software.

Final question - I have access to a Leopard Mac with no floppy. AND my father's old non-internet connected Power PC (8500 series I think) that is running system 8 and has a floppy and CD ROM drive. Can I download Mac 512K software on my Leopard Mac, burn it to a CD, take it to the Power PC, and create an 800K or 400K floppy for use on my 512K? I can downgrade the Power PC to system 7 if necessary.

System 8 Should work fine. You will need to transfer the disk images to the CD (don't attempt to open them under Leopard). Disk Copy should then make good copies. You may need an older version of Disk Copy 4.2 to make viable 400K disks. Again, make sure you do not mount the disk images in the OS 8 Finder, but only in Disk Copy when making the disks as there are various incompatibilities. In some cases, it may be best to transfer the disk images directly to your HD20 and open them with a period utility (i.e. copy the image to a disk then to the HD20 and make a disk natively). It's been awhile since I made disk copies this way (I like to use the direct MacTerminal method for these 64K ROM Macs because of occasional MFS compatibility issues and lack of space to keep more than one vintage mac operating full time). But there are others here who will have much advice.

 

[Charlieman]

8 Microsoft MacEnhancer http://www.macgeek.org/museum/macenhancer/

The MacEnhancer is droolable. If you have drivers for it, please post them in some of the places where we might find them (eg Mac Driver Museum).

800KB floppy drives were on the market before Apple sold the Mac Plus. 800KB MFS was an accepted format and third party manufacturers provided patches for the HD20 INIT.

Mac128 and JDW: have I sent you my notes on early floppy drives?

 

[lumpydog]

Equil and Mac 128 - Thank you. Once I get the 512K in my possession, I'll let you know what I find w/regard tot the ROM. If I do have a 64K chip, I may try to get ahold of a 128K ROM to experiment with - it would be nice to not have to use the HD20 Init disk - and also have the ability to run System 6. We'll see.

Charlieman - MacEnhancer Software: http://www.macgeek.org/downloads/