Interested but confused about 68k PowerBooks

[pfuentes69]

Most has been said already, but just to share my little experience... I have a PB145B that I got for very cheap. I only had to change the screen caps to make it back to live. Then I replaced the soldered PRAM battery for a coin holder and refurbished the main battery cells with a cheap solution. Later added a memory expansion and a self-made BlueSCSI which makes it much pleasant to work as it becomes totally silent. Maybe someday I'll change the BlueSCSI by a RASCSI, so I can also have network card emulation and go online easily, but it's fine like this for now.

I'm really happy to have it in my collection, and it's fun to use it from time to time while watching the TV, and definitely I'll keep it... but it's not a very comfortable machine, due to the screen mostly. I use much more an LC475 that I have with a VGA adaptor to use it with the same LCD I have on my desk.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

If there is one model I wouldn’t recommend, it would be the 190/190cs. They have all the same problems as the other 68k PowerBooks with regard to the plastics and hinges, but there isn’t a 3D printed template to fix the hinges in said systems as far as I know. In addition, my PowerBook 5300ce (which has the exact same design) had the left hinge break on the bottom case, not on the standoffs in the display housing. I can’t imagine an easy way to avoid it breaking there due to how it’s designed. If you’d like to get one and design a solution yourself, go ahead! Other than that the 190s are pretty nice machines, and if you get a 190cs you can swap in an active matrix display from a 5300c for drastically better display quality.

The most I’ve ever paid for a PowerBook was my 1400c, which cost me $150. I usually just bide my time until the model I want comes up for cheap.

As for the 500 series, they are really fast machines, and they look really cool. They do seem to have more plastic problems than the 100 series, as the hinge clutch cover has really tiny tabs that break easily in addition to the hinge standoffs themselves. I also believe that rebuilding the batteries for those are a lot more difficult than for other PowerBooks. The keyboards also aren’t that great on them in my experience. They use the same switch design as the 190/5300 keyboards which get really stiff with wear and time. Maybe there’s a way to loosen them up, but all 3 of my 100 series PowerBooks have much nicer keyboards.

 

[liamur]

Crumbling is a concern of mine: I once got to replace an IDE hard drive in a Power Mac 5260/100, and the plastic crumbled like cake. I would feel bad about the damage I ended up doing, except that it's a 5260 .

I had no idea that SD-IDE adapters were commonplace, nor that BlueSCSIs tend to destroy themselves...yeah, maybe a pizza box is a better idea. What about G3 and earlier PPC PowerBooks? Are those more viable options as an old Mac laptop?

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Here are your PPC options:

5300 Series - I’d avoid these. They have the above-mentioned plastic issues like the 190 has, and they’re pretty darn slow compared to other models

1400 Series - Really great. The base 117MHz model has the same speed issues as the 5300, and the cs models have a passive matrix display, but any other model is fast, and they have amazing keyboards. Just one issue - the hinge standoffs don’t break on these, instead, the actual rear housing cracks around the hinges! It also doesn’t seem like anyone has a good fix for this yet, which is a real shame.

3400 Series - the fastest pre-g3 PowerBook. I don’t own one, so I can’t speak about the keyboard on it, but everything else is great. They have a similar design to the 5300 series, so they may have the same hinge issues, I don’t know, but other than that they’re great. Don’t buy one untested though, because they have leaky PRAM batteries that wreck the logic board. They are also really pricey on eBay.

2400 Series - really great option. Designed by IBM, so its built like a tank and doesn’t have bad hinge issues most of the time. Great keyboard from what I hear as well. Only one problem - they were mostly sold in Japan. The few that were sold in the US go for really high prices.

The G3s are pretty solid and reliable, the wallstreets do have hinge issues because of the metal hinges themselves being weak and prone to wear.

 

[liamur]

So for practical purposes, either the 1400 series or the G3s.

I recognize that this is a hobby, and I'm certainly not expecting any PowerBook to be some kind of world-class laptop. Even so, I think it's reasonable to want a machine that won't fail ten different ways one week after you buy it.

With everything said so far, it actually looks like avoiding the 100 series is a better bet. I think my current (cloudy, poorly defined) plan is to look for G3 and before PPC machines and use an IDE to SD/CF adapter.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Good choice, but about the 1400 issue I mentioned - it WILL happen to yours if you use the hinges. The rear display housing will crack around the hinges and break, which isn't easily fixable. The G3s are good picks though. I personally like the challenge of restoring these tricky old laptops, if you don't then that's fine.

 

[liamur]

Restoration, to me, is more rewarding when necessary components (outer case, for example) don't just fall apart. I think it would be a much wiser investment to go for machines known to be reliable, with n years of innovation behind them.

 

[AndyO]

I like the early PowerBooks, not least because I prefer trackballs to trackpads, and also they have pretty good keyboards, and a very distinct 'early Mac' user experience, but I've been playing with a few G3 PowerBooks of late, and the extra power gives them an edge in terms of the complexity of tasks they can be used for, and their screens are much better. They also have ethernet, and by the 'bronze keyboard' models (Lombard and then Pismo) they have USB.

That said, I think I prefer the Wallstreet and Wallstreet II (also known as 'PDQ'} because while they are thicker and heavier, their keyboards are better than the later models, not least because the keyboard backplate is better supported, so there's less 'bounce' to it when typing - which seems to be a bit of a problem with the two Lombard's I have on the right-hand side of the keyboard.

I recently picked up a 13-inch Wallstreet for $39, untested, and it works almost perfectly, I have two PDQs which cost $50 and $65 respectively, the latter in almost pristine condition, and three Lombards, one a parts machine, and two that I use - the most expensive was $75.

In the two working Lombards, I've replaced the original IDE drive with an IDE-SD card adapter and 32Gb SD card which cost around $20 for each laptop, and gives the system more responsiveness. I'm planning on doing the same to the PDQs.

There were three different Wallstreet models, a 12-inch, a 13 and a 14 (all subsequent G3 PowerBooks were 14-inch only). The 12-inch Wallstreet model has a passive matrix screen, but I think all the others are active matrix, and really excellent to use.

I've used PC Cards to add USB to the PDQs, and found a couple of floppy drive expansion modules for them too. Otherwise, all the G3 laptops I have came with a CD ROM drive. Two of the batteries actually still hold a bit of a charge, and all start up happily with a dead PRAM battery.

The plastics on these seem to be in far better shape than the earlier PowerBooks too, and structurally rather more sound too. Curiously, a G3 Lombard weighs almost exactly the same as a 100-series model, so if it's being used on the lap, they feel about the same.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

+1 on the PDQ/Wallstreet keyboard being great. It's a different feel than the 1400's, but just as good. Mine unfortunately has floppy hinges, which seems to not be too uncommon, but as long as the one you end up with (if you get one) has strong hinges (and you're careful), it should last. Apple's old laptops sure are a pain, but then again, all old laptops are. I have a Dell laptop with the same housing cracking issue as the 1400s, and brittle plastic is an issue across every model from the time really. Those models might just not be for you, and that's fine. The G3s are the first real solid ones, but they weren't the last Apple laptop that wasn't good durability wise.

Restoration, to me, is more rewarding when necessary components (outer case, for example) don't just fall apart. I think it would be a much wiser investment to go for machines known to be reliable, with n years of innovation behind them.

The original PowerBook 100 might be a decent option for you then. They have a very different motherboard design that has a bunch of SMD caps that leak. The screen will also need caps, and then if you can get it working, you should be good. The hinges are still robust as far as I know, and @360alaska sells rebuilt Lithium batteries for these on eBay! It's the slowest PowerBook Apple ever made, with the original 68000 chip and it's got a passive-matrix display, but it won't fall apart on its own. They have a tendency to still have display issues after recapping though, sometimes thanks to corroded inductors or bad traces. Once you get those issues sorted out, they're pretty reliable as far as I know.

 

[LaPorta]

I think everybody needs at least 1 active matrix monochrome 100 series Powerbook in their collection.

Does the Portable count?

 

[ian1035nr]

Also keep in mind that you're going to need a way to get software over to whatever PowerBook you purchase.

BlueSCSI or SCSI2SD will make that a lot easier on your initial install. But once you have everything in place and buttoned up, it generally isn't advisable that you crack the machine open too frequently to access the microSD card. Every time you mess with the screws, you run the risk of snapping one of the standoffs.

The easiest 68k PowerBook to transfer large files to/from by far is the 500-series. They have built-in Ethernet and all you need is an adapter (which are plentiful) to connect it to a modern Ethernet network, at which point it can access shared folders

Older 100-series machines are a bit more complicated. Some, but not all, let you use SCSI disk mode. There's also the option of hooking them up to SCSI CD-ROM drives. For small files I use a serial cable and a program called ZTerm to move things to and from my old 170. But either way it's a bit more involved than using the 500's Ethernet connection.

How big of a problem this is all depends on what hardware you have available and what kind of stuff you reasonably expect to put on the machine.

For overall ease of setup, I definitely recommend a 500-series machine. But if you absolutely want to use a 68k PowerBook on the go, I recommend a 100-series machine. The batteries are really easy to rebuild. I rebuilt a couple batteries for my 170 using NiMH cells and, combined with a SCSI2SD, give me several hours of use per charge.

Rebuilding 500-series batteries is a chore and it's extremely fickle, to boot. The packs are sealed tight, it's hard to get them open. There's also very little space in there. And once you get everything replaced, you have to use 3rd party software tools to try and reset the battery's built-in controller. This is extremely hit-or-miss and you might find you put all that effort into rebuilding a battery that just can't be reset. And if that controller isn't brought online, the PowerBook won't run off the battery. I rebuilt a battery for my 540 over a year ago and it still isn't right. If the battery ever gets unseated, even slightly, I have to plug the laptop into a charger for it to start up, at which point it'll recognize the battery again and work fine right up until the battery is jarred loose; which is a common occurrence since these batteries just use a small, spring-loaded tab as a lock instead of the 100-series' much more solid sliding door.

 

[liamur]

On the Mac Plus I borrowed, I used a Power Mac 5260 (the one I mentioned earlier) to make some System 6 floppies with some good software, then I built a serial cable and used ZTerm to transfer files. It was slow, but it worked---and much faster than Macintosh Kermit, my initial attempt!

Like I mentioned, the G3s (or the 500 series like you say) are frankly more practical.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

I get software and files on/off my fleet of PowerBooks with my external RaSCSI. It’s a board that attaches to a Raspberry Pi to allow it to interface with the external SCSI port on the laptop. It broadcasts a web interface over your local wifi that you can access from any computer. It can emulate SCSI hard drives and CD-ROM drives, allowing you to easily boot the computer, transfer files, and mount disk images, and it will even emulate a SCSI Ethernet device to allow the laptop to get online. It works great and isn’t that expensive either, it‘s my favorite tool for my PowerBooks, and it skips the need for any bridge machines or floppy disks.