IIci with Quadra 650

[Cosmo]

As i have come across lots of IIci and IIcx cases, and less PSU's to run other than one (!) of them, i thought, as i really do not like the design of, putting an Quadra 650 inside of a IIci case. It'll require some work on back plate, but let's see what happens. No pictures yet. Quadra 700 would be just swap-in, but i do not have such around. Do have lots of Ii and IIx cases too, would allow an CD-ROM added with some modding... hmm, that's an thought!

Have an 601-card for the Quadra as well, and the Radius LeMans GT came installed with the quadra, so might try that too how it fits.

Anyone done this yet?

Missing cool project name (Trash-style!) for this :lol:

 

[Cosmo]

Finally this project takes an step ahead. Actually, i am supposed to clean out lots of stuff i keep at work, so i took these units to home and started the modification. This is been done before, but i have lost the link, need to find it again.

It's quite easy mod, need to cut some plastics under the motherboard and the back panel. The screw in the middle fits perfectly after removing the back panel and the motherboard fits where it should be.

The PSU fits easily as well the HDD+3.5" disk drive-bay as well. Obiously need to leave out the cd-rom drive unless start to get really creative (i have few ideas..).

I have an PPC-card for the Quadra as well and pile of RAM, need to try if they work. Originally this Quadra was equipped with the Radius LeMans GT NuBus-card.

 

[trag]

Shreve Systems did a ton of these modifications back in the day. It was fairly popular as the Q650 logic board is a very nice step up from a IIci.

Anything up to 32MB SIMMs should work in the Q650. I've tried 64MB and 128MB SIMMs in them, and IIRC, they were detected as 1/2 their capacity. It might be interesting to install four 128MB SIMMs and see if you get 256MB of RAM. I'm not sure how reliable it would be.

Ah, checked my notebook, and I remembered correctly, above. 128MB SIMMs were detected as 64 MB. However, I did not test four of them simultaneously, I think.

I think that the SIMM socket wiring in the Q650 bears more investigation. Its less capable cousin, the Q605 will go to 260MB of RAM with a pair of 128MB SIMMs and a SIMMverter installed. There must be some way of getting 256MB of RAM into the Q650, at least.

 

[bbraun]

In every "Universal" ROM (IIsi and up?), there is a table that contains information about specific machines the ROM knows about. This includes things like what address decoder it has, VIA initialization values, slot information, RAM bank sizing, onboard video setup, how to access PRAM, RTC, etc. I'm still noodling through what does and doesn't refer to this (MMU setup has its own tables for instance), so some of the information in the table is authoritative for some things, but not others. As a result, I can't say whether something should or shouldn't work with any certainty, but...

The Quadra 650's RAM setup information in this table indicates address space and probing for 64MB/socket.

All that really matters is the empirical test, so yeah, it would be interesting to see.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Cosmo, great hack idea . . . Q-IIci™ perchance?

I inflicted something similar upon one of the Quadra 700 triplets about 10 years ago, but I haven't finished it yet. I still need to try out the plastic welder to fill in the gaps, it's tacked together rather well with MEK apparently, it survived three moves! For the Video Card, EtherNet port and that AWEFUL excuse for a Video Connector, I grafted the @$$ end of the 7100 to the Quadra_700. Feel free to crib any ideas, that's why I posted the Quadra7100™ for you to look over.







I'll probably substitute a blank scrap of Case ABS where the chopped off Q700 nameplate and remnant of the 7100 backplane meet when I finally do fire up the plastic welder.

 

[Cosmo]

Sadly i do not have large SIMM's to use. Need to check the dog-ugly Performa 6200 wich have 72-pin SIMM's as well.

Trash - do you have pictures from inside the case of your wonderull 7100?

That's an thought...! I have an spare 7100 motherboard and those take G3 cards..... hmm... still have IIci cases too..... wonder how HOT it would get with G3 card and Radius LeMans GT!

QuadraIIci AND 7100IIci wooooot!!

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

The G3 cards are supposed to run cooler and use less power than the standard CPU. That's the way it is in the 1400, so it's likely true of the NuBus PDS Accelerators as well.

I just took shots of the rump of the thing to show you the @$$graft hack. Too tired tonight, I'll try to take some pics of the inside tomorrow morning. The only remarkable things about the inside are the extra slot (PDS) for the VidCard and the fan that's rattling around there in hopes of finding a secure spot at some point.

I'm wondering if a Beige G3 Desktop MoBo would fit into one of the triplets. One Q700 needs to remain stock, but a Quadra 700 G4™ might be kinda cool! }

 

[Cosmo]

I'm wondering if a Beige G3 Desktop MoBo would fit into one of the triplets. One Q700 needs to remain stock, but a Quadra 700 G4™ might be kinda cool!

That's an idea!

Now wondering if should save up some more II-serie cases...

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I think the beige Mobo would have to be mounted sideways to fit and I don't really know about the processor upgrade options. My Crescendo G4 is meant for my 9500/8600 and someday, hopefully, for the PEx/9700 MoBo.

I 'd save as many cases as possible. I'd like to use them as building blocks to support shelves for displaying the other Macs and PBs in my collection. Some of the case designs I really don't like very much, especially the IIvx-7100 series and beige G3 desktop cases, hence, the Quadra 700/7100 fision. Desktop cases take up too much display real estate that I'd rather be using for the 'ZaBoxen with fitted monitors, my PowerBooks and especially the Duos.

I've sort of fallen into the MacFurniture™ thing, as a matter of necessity at first. It's been eight years since I had to escape the Big Apple and I needed furniture when I got here. I gave up on the ghetto cinderblock shelving inspired, MacStack3™ a while back, but I've amassed a nice collection of Radius Clone front bezels and I've found three PC Mid-Tower cases to fit behind them. When the time is right for the MacCinderBlockDisplayUnit™ all I'll need is to have made up the sheet metal blanks and wrangle about half a day in front of a Box Brake. The front bezels without computers behind them will then become swinging doors on storage lockers for peripherals, smaller items, cables and spare parts.

Gotta take some pics . . .

 

[Cosmo]

Everything else fits inside the IIci -case, expect the speaker. The plastics in the bottom (the hooks) do not fit, as the motherboard is slightly different place as the original was. An easy fix up is in order.

Added some RAM from the Performa 6200CD. Have not yet booted up the machine however.

Actually, those Macintosh II cases would be quite good storage units for small parts.. I have one quite good condition IIx case i could use, i will not bother fixing it, PSU busted atleast so far i can tell. But making furniture.. NO. I have an dream to get an Apple Server to use as night table :lol: (the wife would disagree on this for sure if she knew). I am looking into buying an shelf from IKEA wich would give more space, but sametime, loosing the "hiding corner" for stacked units.

G3/G4 inside an Macintosh II would be easier, lots of s-p-a-c-e for anything one desires. I don't have any Beige G3's however to get parts from. Only Tower G3 333mhz wich i do not want to destroy.

Oh no, does this mean i need to save up some cases... those are not shipped out yet to be recycled (can take... loong time to do so).

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I'd definitely turn the extra cases into the pillars for shelves. You can get the shelves for less than the IKEA shelf, try selling that one! :lol:

ISTR the Mac II case standing on end, with the leveling/airflow feets hack, being tall enough for my 9500 to stand on the floor under the first shelf level. But we can probably drop the MacFurniture discussion due to spousal relationship maintenance. [] ]'>

 

[trag]

In every "Universal" ROM (IIsi and up?), there is a table that contains information about specific machines the ROM knows about. This includes things like what address decoder it has, VIA initialization values, slot information, RAM bank sizing, onboard video setup, how to access PRAM, RTC, etc.
The Quadra 650's RAM setup information in this table indicates address space and probing for 64MB/socket.

That is very cool. I'm looking forward to your ultimate results on this. As far as I can tell, 64MB and 128MB SIMMs use 12 column address bits and 12 row address bits (the 128MB SIMM has two banks).

So, given its behaviour, I surmise that the Q650 supports 12 address bits in the row or the column, but only supports 11 address bits in the other. Hence, it does 12 X 11 addressing, and 32 MB is the most that can be addressed in a bank. It must support two bank SIMMs, because common 32 MB SIMMs are actually two banks of 16MB, and because the 128MB SIMMs would have the same capacity as 64MB SIMMs if two banks were not supported.

Have you seen anything in there which seems to define the row and column addressing supported?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

[] ]'>

 

[bbraun]

Have you seen anything in there which seems to define the row and column addressing supported?

I haven't seen anything specific about that, but I do have a tweak or two I'd try if I had one of these setup with a replaceable ROM. I don't have a Q650, but from the pictures, it looks like there are solder pads...

If I come across one, I'll check it out.

 

[bbraun]

The memory controller in the Quadra 650 is also used by the Q610 and Q800 (and Centris variants). I have none of these machines to verify with, but everymac.com says all of these machines max out at 32MB SIMMs.

I have no idea offhand if dougg3's ROM SIMM will work in these, but if anyone who has one of these is willing to solder a ROM SIMM socket on and test it out, it may (no promises, this is entirely early stages brainstorming) be possible to run 64MB SIMMs (or more hope than realism here, 128MB) in these with a ROM mod.

If anyone is up for it, and can confirm dougg3's ROM SIMM works in any of these machines, and has 64MB and 128MB SIMMs around to test with, let me know. It'd probably take me a couple days to come up with an initial patch, but it would be interesting to see if we could double or quadruple the usable RAM in these machines.

 

[Cosmo]

Some more recent pictures. Just missing the PRAM battery (oh!) and the speaker unit wich did not fit straight away. Installed two more SIMM's from Performa 6200CD wich i took into parts.

Took the PM 7100 motherboard from the storage and notised that some caps had leaked long before i notised. This motherboard came from another 7100 i had wich wasn't worth rescuing at the time i got it.

Let's see if i get around modding the current PM7100 i have, with G3 card on it, to IIci or equilevant, case. I am not fan of those metal cases a bit. Reminds me of those cheap PC's at the time too much of.

 

[Cosmo]

The thought of putting the 7100+G3 card+Radius Lemans GT inside an "more-eye-pleasing-case" made me do a little, rough i admit, concept-test with the parts in hand. The Macintosh IIx case i have, is quite clean all the way, with ROM SIMM, and filled RAM slots. 5.25" HDD but no 3.5" superdrive (easily replaceable from storage parts) - so might NOT be the case to put into this project if it takes more air.

Hacking the CD-ROM into the case is but more demanding but do-able somehow.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Go with the Pop-Top CD Hack like in my pet IIfx, that leaves the case unmolested on 5 sides. If you mount . . .

. . . 8-o . . . blast you Cosmo! :

Anybody on this side of the pond got an empty MacII series case in halfway decent shape? :I

 

[Cosmo]

Making the hole to the case and using the piece and glue it on the end of the CD-ROM tray... NOT easy with my tools [:O] ]'> in order to make it look good..

I thought also that scanner interface box i have, it have similar "stripes" as on 68k machines do, as external CD-ROM case, but the box is too small! Bummer.

Or i just could use the AppleSC CD -box i have :lol: