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Getting NetBSD on my Macintosh IIvx

MidnightCommando

Well-known member
I need help with getting NetBSD on my Mac IIvx.

Also, does anyone know if there are optimised installation sets for the 68030?

First hurdle - what do I actually physically need to download to prep the IIvx for running NetBSD?

(All the documentation I could find is ancient.)

 

johnklos

Well-known member
There aren't any m68030 optimized sets, but I'll make some and post the link.

To get started, you should partition your disk so that you have a small Mac OS partition from which to boot, then run the Booter from there. One recommendation is to not bother with the Installer instructions since Installer hasn't been updated in ages. General information is here:

ftp://ftp.NetBSD.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-5.0.2/mac68k/INSTALL.html

and there are links to other FAQs here:

http://www.netbsd.org/ports/mac68k/

In a nutshell, you can format the drive with Apple HD SC Setup with a small Mac OS partition, a main partition for NetBSD (formatted as A/UX root and usr), and a small swap partition (usually twice the maximum amount of physical memory you'll ever have). Install Mac OS on the boot partition and download the Booter program and an installation kernel. Boot the installation kernel, get the machine's network configured, and install the rest of the sets via FTP, and you're pretty much bootstrapped.

I should have m68030 sets by the morning (your guess as to what time that will be).

 

MidnightCommando

Well-known member
Thanks kindly! Out of curiousity, other than -m68030 and presumably -O2 what are your compile-time optimisations? :)

Also, is there a reasonable way to use my Radius 24AC as the video output for console/X ? While I doubt X11 can take advantage of the acceleration on it, I would at least welcome the higher resolutions, even unaccelerated.

 

MidnightCommando

Well-known member
Hey John, I have a further question.

I'm unable to download this until the 1st of the month (broadband internet connections in Australia are criminally limited) - so I figured I may as well be informed.

While it's not as though the 68030 has much that can be done in the way of code path optimisations or special instructions implemented in hardware (as the x86 has MMX and SSE) ... does gcc's -m68030 option imply -msoft-float? I'm most likely going to recompile NetBSD on the IIvx when I get bored, and I want to know if it will be necessary to specify -mno-soft-float (as of course the IIvx possesses a TQFP 68882 on the logic board in all configurations) ...

Also, how much trimming can I reasonably do to the kernel? I am aware that the OpenBSD codebase on powerpc for instance has some strange and very arcane/cryptic dependencies - as it was based off NetBSD I wouldn't be surprised to learn that due diligence is necessary in working on NetBSD also.

Also, where can I get X sets (I've read about the NetBSD 1.2 and 1.3 releases having a monochrome X server by default, something called a SLOTMAN kernel, support for "video LKM" (loadable kernel modules?) ... is the color X server integrated in mainline now? Is there any level of support for various NuBus cards? Is there some sort of up-to-date hardware compatibility list? Is it even worth having the 24AC in the IIvx - will I be stuck with the Brazil framebuffer video, etc...

And now a slightly more important question - I read from a post of yours to a mailing list that the only UNIX that supports the floppy on the II-series macs is A/UX - of course, not an option for me. Has this been rectified since? Will NetBSD willingly talk to, and perhaps even do something useful with, my floppy drive? I don't really have the option of USB flash drives, I don't have a SCSI zip drive anywhere (oh wait, I might... hrm...), CD-ROMs are inefficient and wasteful for one-time transfers, and networking is going to be a PITA to get working (my house is wired peculiarly) ... not to mention I like to occasionally make Mac OS floppies from images using dd, and it would be cool to do on actual Mac hardware }:)

Furthermore, how is serial support? Will I be able to hook up a StyleWriter II for instance and have it print using CUPS or printcap? Is the IIvx' audio supported? (Amazingly, my board, though mildly fallen to capacitor plague, appears to function flawlessly, including audio!) While I appreciate the impossibility of decoding mp3s in realtime at the bitrates I use, perhaps cat'ing AIFFs to /dev/dsp will still work?

I hold no illusions that by its very nature running a modern OS on a IIvx will be an inherently limited experience, but I would like to know just where the limits lie, so that I won't be so frustrated by them, and so that I can most suitably make use of the machine.

Regards,

-- Horst.

 

ChristTrekker

Well-known member
I think someone was working on X.org for mac68k. I'll have to look into that.
Would be fantastic if this work is still ongoing. I can't remember what the issues were last time I was following that discussion...maybe something about working with the frame buffer? Dunno. Not that I'm using X a whole bunch on my 68ks, but it would still be cool.

the only UNIX that supports the floppy on the II-series macs is A/UX
This is still the case, AFAIK. Apple floppy drives are Woz-gical, and nobody but Apple knows well enough how they work to write a driver for them.

 

johnklos

Well-known member
I'm unable to download this until the 1st of the month (broadband internet connections in Australia are criminally limited) - so I figured I may as well be informed.
While it's not as though the 68030 has much that can be done in the way of code path optimisations or special instructions implemented in hardware (as the x86 has MMX and SSE) ... does gcc's -m68030 option imply -msoft-float? I'm most likely going to recompile NetBSD on the IIvx when I get bored, and I want to know if it will be necessary to specify -mno-soft-float (as of course the IIvx possesses a TQFP 68882 on the logic board in all configurations) ...
Sorry it's been so long, but I had to move my entire rack of servers and move network announcements from one datacenter to another on the 30th, which was crazy. Most things are back up now.

-m68030 does not imply -msoft-float, but I could compile up a set with software floating point if you like.

Also, how much trimming can I reasonably do to the kernel? I am aware that the OpenBSD codebase on powerpc for instance has some strange and very arcane/cryptic dependencies - as it was based off NetBSD I wouldn't be surprised to learn that due diligence is necessary in working on NetBSD also.
Also, where can I get X sets (I've read about the NetBSD 1.2 and 1.3 releases having a monochrome X server by default, something called a SLOTMAN kernel, support for "video LKM" (loadable kernel modules?) ... is the color X server integrated in mainline now? Is there any level of support for various NuBus cards? Is there some sort of up-to-date hardware compatibility list? Is it even worth having the 24AC in the IIvx - will I be stuck with the Brazil framebuffer video, etc...
It'd be wonderful if someone got proper color X.org working on mac68k. I have to check up on that - I think there's some fix-up code out there that never got into the tree.

WRT the 24AC, I know that many NuBus cards are supported, but the documentation is more out of date than the code! Try it out and see what it does for you.

Trimming will mostly be based on your dmesg from a GENERIC kernel.

And now a slightly more important question - I read from a post of yours to a mailing list that the only UNIX that supports the floppy on the II-series macs is A/UX - of course, not an option for me. Has this been rectified since? Will NetBSD willingly talk to, and perhaps even do something useful with, my floppy drive? I don't really have the option of USB flash drives, I don't have a SCSI zip drive anywhere (oh wait, I might... hrm...), CD-ROMs are inefficient and wasteful for one-time transfers, and networking is going to be a PITA to get working (my house is wired peculiarly) ... not to mention I like to occasionally make Mac OS floppies from images using dd, and it would be cool to do on actual Mac hardware }:)
I read somewhere that someone got the floppy working in GNU/Linux and that the code is generic enough to use to update the BSD floppy driver (from looking, not copying, since GPL code can't just be brought into the non-GNU parts of NetBSD), but I haven't had a chance to compare them and/or do any testing.

Furthermore, how is serial support? Will I be able to hook up a StyleWriter II for instance and have it print using CUPS or printcap? Is the IIvx' audio supported? (Amazingly, my board, though mildly fallen to capacitor plague, appears to function flawlessly, including audio!) While I appreciate the impossibility of decoding mp3s in realtime at the bitrates I use, perhaps cat'ing AIFFs to /dev/dsp will still work?
Serial ports should just work. If I am remembering properly, Stylewriters don't use LocalTalk. But audio isn't supported, nor is there support for any DSPs (not that the IIvx has any, but it'd be nice if someone added support for the AVs and the NeXT DSPs).

I hold no illusions that by its very nature running a modern OS on a IIvx will be an inherently limited experience, but I would like to know just where the limits lie, so that I won't be so frustrated by them, and so that I can most suitably make use of the machine.
For the most part, NetBSD on these machines is generally about having the kind of machine which can just do its thing for days, weeks, months, or possibly years without interruption and without the kinds of issues which desktop machines sometimes have. For example, if you want to upload huge files but don't want to worry about possible interruptions if your desktop machine needs a reboot, use a NetBSD machine. If you want to serve static web pages, run a mail or DNS server, or have a smart NAT machine for your network, use a NetBSD machine. On the other hand, if you want a secondary desktop machine with a fancy GUI, an m68k Mac running NetBSD isn't really the best choice.

 
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