• Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this post for more info about the recent service interruption and migration.

Garrett's Finds

LaPorta

Well-known member
The above i correct, that was why I was asking. Another posible way to go about it is to get yourself a pair of PhoneNet adapters.

 

Garrett

Well-known member
Today I popped the bucket off the SuperSE again in another attempt to remove the logic board and get a look at the Mobius accelerator card. As per LaPorta's recommendation, I discharged the CRT and removed the neck board. While this didn't make accessing the power connector as easy as on my other (dual-floppy) SE or my Classic, it made it much easier and less stressful than before.

Removing the logic board is easy, as always. I got to get a look at the Mobius accelerator card and the Motorola 68030 that makes this thing a powerhouse. I looked at the battery while inside. Unlike the Varta battery in my other 1988 SE, this one is stone dead and has a concerning white spot near one of the legs. (On the back of the board, there's some white stuff surrounding the hole for one of the battery legs.) I have a friend who says they're good at soldering (the one who went to Micro Center with me) so I may have them assist me in pulling these PRAM batteries out of my SEs so I can sleep sound knowing they're gone. (Are there any other ways to remove the battery if you don't have a soldering iron?)

Unfortunately, getting the logic board reinstalled in the machine was hell. While the logic board on my other SE slides right back in both rails, for some reason (perhaps the accelerator card?) this logic board doesn't want to. It only wants to slide back into one of the side rails, but won't easily go into the other - as if the space between the two rails is too narrow. I actually had to (as carefully as possible) force the board back into the slotted rails and shove it down.

Got the machine almost entirely buttoned up and forgot to reconnect the external monitor port connector to the accelerator card. DOH! Instead of tearing the machine back apart, I just put it back in there but didn't reconnect it for now. I'll likely have the logic board out sometime in the near future to remove that battery and perhaps send the boards off for recapping. Plugged the machine back in and it works fine without it plugged in, though.

My next goal is to get the PowerBooks working.

lb.jpg68030.jpglb_battery.jpg

 

CC_333

Well-known member
That looks really nice!

I think that smaller socket just above the '030 is for an FPU.  Most software doesn't use it (I think some spreadsheet software and scientific/mathematical programs use the FPU extensively if one is available), but if you come across one (for the '030, I think either a 68881 or 68882 would work if you can find one in the proper form factor), it might be a neat thing to install "because you can" :)

c

 

Garrett

Well-known member
That looks really nice!

I think that smaller socket just above the '030 is for an FPU.  Most software doesn't use it (I think some spreadsheet software and scientific/mathematical programs use the FPU extensively if one is available), but if you come across one (for the '030, I think either a 68881 or 68882 would work if you can find one in the proper form factor), it might be a neat thing to install "because you can" :)

c
I think you're right. I don't think I'll ever come across a 68881/68882 math coprocessor in the wild, and even if I do I'd have little use for it. Majority of the software I use probably wouldn't take advantage of it and run just fine on the 68030 itself.

Somewhat random question, but wasn't the 68030 and other Motorola processors fabbed at Motorola's facility in Austin, Texas? The original owner of this machine bought it (and the PowerBook 165) during their time at the University of Texas in Austin.

 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
Regarding serial cables, doesn't one need a special crossover cable for direct machine-to-machine LocalTalk?


I thought you could directly connect two machines together and have them talk to each other, but I guess not?


If you use a standard Apple serial cable, the same as you'd use to attach a computer to a printer, it should work.  As far as I can tell, quite a bit of the confusion here is that there are cables out there that look like standard Apple serial cables, but aren't; they're either missing pins or are wired up differently.

I knew you needed a special dongle to be able to use AppleTalk/LocalTalk for larger networks


Yup, the dongles just contain the necessary electrics to turn a point-to-point connection into a long bus with more than two computers on it.  There's nothing complicated in them, it's pretty much just to stop the computers from being able to knacker each other and to keep the signal nice and clean at the ends of the chain.

Your mention of modems here is a bit of a red herring; modems don't need anything special.  It's only if you're connecting more than two macs together that you need the dongles.  In all other cases, you can just use a standard serial lead.

(Are there any other ways to remove the battery if you don't have a soldering iron?)


If you just cut the leads with a pair of wire snippers, the battery ought to just come off.  It's not been glued down or anything in any of mine, anyway.

 

LaPorta

Well-known member
Yes, as stated above, just cut the battery out if you don't want it. As an aside, in all the machines I have come across (I know, never say never), but I have NEVER seen one of those permanent, soldered-in VARTA batteries explode. Every last one I have seen was the removable type.

I think that is so neat that you found that accelerator. To date, with the exception of an external projector card in a Plus and an ethernet card in an SE/30, I have never come across a Mac with anything exciting. In fact, pretty much everyone that I find only has its base RAM. I am excited to see what you will do with this.

 

EvilCapitalist

Well-known member
Unfortunately, getting the logic board reinstalled in the machine was hell. While the logic board on my other SE slides right back in both rails, for some reason (perhaps the accelerator card?) this logic board doesn't want to. It only wants to slide back into one of the side rails, but won't easily go into the other - as if the space between the two rails is too narrow. I actually had to (as carefully as possible) force the board back into the slotted rails and shove it down.
When I had an accelerated SE I had to bend the frame and take the motherboard out essentially straight down.  The instructions specifically said to do so as there wasn't enough clearance to slide the motherboard back in with the accelerator attached.  If you got it in one of the frame rails and pulled the other out to pop the motherboard in everything would *just* fit.  It's very annoying to have to do so, but since Killy clips haven't been made in ages and whatever's left isn't going to be super strong (not that they ever were in the first place) it's the best option available.

 

Garrett

Well-known member
I think that is so neat that you found that accelerator. To date, with the exception of an external projector card in a Plus and an ethernet card in an SE/30, I have never come across a Mac with anything exciting. In fact, pretty much everyone that I find only has its base RAM. I am excited to see what you will do with this.
The battery is still coming out, at least on this SE. I'm thinking about buying a new PRAM battery holder for the SuperSE so I can install a new PRAM battery that can be easily swapped out. While I don't really care about having to reset the time/date settings on my stock SE and Classic, there may be some settings on the SuperSE that may need to be retained for proper operation. (The 1988 Varta battery still holds time perfectly on my stock SE. So far it hasn't even drifted off by a minute. Regardless, I'd like to remove it. I may also install an aftermarket PRAM battery holder on that board when I get it recapped.)

This is the only Mac that I have that came upgraded. Both my stock SE and my Classic were stock. I have since upgraded the Classic from 2 MB to the full 4 MB of RAM.

When I had an accelerated SE I had to bend the frame and take the motherboard out essentially straight down.  The instructions specifically said to do so as there wasn't enough clearance to slide the motherboard back in with the accelerator attached.  If you got it in one of the frame rails and pulled the other out to pop the motherboard in everything would *just* fit.  It's very annoying to have to do so, but since Killy clips haven't been made in ages and whatever's left isn't going to be super strong (not that they ever were in the first place) it's the best option available.
It's a pain. I was worried about possibly damaging the logic board, but the only way I could get it to go in was by pulling the rail out and forcing the logic board in. It finally went in... and then I realized I forgot to reconnect the monitor port cable. Oh well, that port will likely never get used anyways.

Does anyone know if the Mobius 030 accelerator card should be recapped as well? I'm currently planning on having the logic/analog boards and the Sony power supply in the SuperSE recapped. With that, what size of anti-static ESD bag will I need for the logic board? Also, what size of anti-static ESD bags do people use to ship the analog board? With my Classic I had to jury-rig a "bag" by splicing two bags together.

I tried to find ESD bags at Micro Center (I'm running out) but everything they had was super small... about the size you'd use for an Arduino or Raspberry Pi.

 

davidg5678

Well-known member
Does anyone know if the Mobius 030 accelerator card should be recapped as well?
It looks to me like all of the capacitors on your accelerator are tantalum capacitors. They are probably still fine, as there is no fluid inside them. From what I have heard though, when tantalum capacitors do fail, it is usually spectacularly (in a puff of smoke). Maybe replacing them preemptively is a good idea, but I don't think that this is something that people ordinarily ever do.

With that, what size of anti-static ESD bag will I need for the logic board?
I think you should just buy a multi-pack of various sizes of ESD bags online. That way, you'll have every kind of size possible, not to mention it isn't much cheaper to buy a single bag vs 40. I have fit Mac SE boards into the largest size included here: https://www.amazon.com/Resealable-Antistatic-Anti-Static-Motherboard-Electronic/dp/B07M95GLVR/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=esd+bags&qid=1611943213&sr=8-9

 

LaPorta

Well-known member
Agree with David. I bought three different sizes, and they even came with static warning stickers (cool factor). Keep 'em in the drawer and you'll have a bunch for the future.

 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
Thirding this: they're neither bulky nor perishable, and they're the kind of thing one can need without much notice, so worth getting a variety pack and just sticking them in a drawer somewhere.

 

Garrett

Well-known member
It looks to me like all of the capacitors on your accelerator are tantalum capacitors. They are probably still fine, as there is no fluid inside them. From what I have heard though, when tantalum capacitors do fail, it is usually spectacularly (in a puff of smoke). Maybe replacing them preemptively is a good idea, but I don't think that this is something that people ordinarily ever do.

I think you should just buy a multi-pack of various sizes of ESD bags online. That way, you'll have every kind of size possible, not to mention it isn't much cheaper to buy a single bag vs 40. I have fit Mac SE boards into the largest size included here: https://www.amazon.com/Resealable-Antistatic-Anti-Static-Motherboard-Electronic/dp/B07M95GLVR/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=esd+bags&qid=1611943213&sr=8-9
I don't think I'll recap the accelerator card. I've heard of the RIFA caps blowing and putting out lots of putrid smoke, but I don't think I've heard of other tantalums going bad unless "provoked" (over-voltage, etc.)

I bought the largest size of ESD bags back in May. Will the large bags in the Amazon link hold the analog board for the compact Macs? I'll go ahead and purchase those, I like that they're resealable. (My current ones also came with ESD warning stickers.)

 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
RIFA caps ... other tantalums


That's partly because the RIFA capacitors aren't actually tantalums at all, they're based on paper covered with a metal foil.  Mains filtering capacitors are subject to a lot of abuse and have to fail safe under quite difficult conditions, which is why they're generally specialised parts made in different ways.

More information than you probably want is here: http://www.iequalscdvdt.com/Line-filter.html

(it is easy to lose oneself following links from that website, be warned.  A good rabbit hole.)

 
Top