Enlighten me: SE/30 PDS slot?

[commodorejohn]

So I've just come into possession of a Mac SE/30 :b&w: Having a thing for the old compact Macs, and this being the best of the bunch, I'd like to try and get it all clean and beef it up a bit (ideally, I'd like to run Linux/m68k on it, just for fun.) However, I'm slightly confused by this whole PDS thing. It looks, from Wikipedia, like the PDS slot exists in a number of mostly mutually-incompatible versions? One reference I looked at suggests that the SE/30 and IIsi share a PDS version, but another section implies that a later LC version is backwards-compatible with an earlier version, so there is some degree of cross-compatiblity? I'm confused. Which kind(s) of PDS cards will work with my SE/30 - and specifically, which Ethernet cards?

 

[johnklos]

Most of the SE/30 cards are vertical due to the layout of the motherboard and case. Someone else, I'm sure, can give you details, but you won't be looking at LC PDS cards and thinking they could go in an SE/30.

Regarding m68k GNU/Linux, please do let us know how far you get with it. The last time I checked the state of Debian on m68k was pretty poor due to a lack of up to date toolchain parts. If they ever do get things worked out, I'd love to give it a go.

 

[Scott Baret]

The LC compatibility issue is related to later LCs. When the LCIII came out, an LCIII PDS was introduced with extra pins. However, the LCIII and later models with the LCIII PDS can use original LC/LCII cards.

The SE/30 PDS is unique and works only on the SE/30.

For the record, a list of PDS types:

-SE/SE SuperDrive (works only in these models)

-SE/30 (works only in this model)

-IIsi (works only in this model; IIsi PDS can be adapted to accept NuBus)

-Classic II (works only in this model; does not allow for external connectivity and usually used for 68882 card)

-LC/LCII (works in any LC series machine including Performa variants and the Color Classic)

-LCIII and later (works only in LC series machines with this style of PDS)

 

[commodorejohn]

Okay, got it home from the recycle center and plugged in. I know it has a hard drive installed, since I can see the activity light flashing and hear the disk rattle to life on bootup, and it attempts to boot from the drive, but can't actually boot; I get the question-mark disk icon. No big deal, I have install disks. The problem is, when I boot from floppies into System 6 or 7.5, it doesn't display a partition and can't find a valid SCSI device in Hard Disk SC Setup. Is there a way to figure out what's wrong, short of tracking down an ultra-long Torx screwdriver and opening the case for a look?

 

[JRL]

Best bet would be to tried the patched version of HD SC Setup on this page:

http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/hd.html

 

[Bunsen]

The SE/30 PDS is unique and works only on the SE/30.

The IIsi PDS slot is identical *, the difference is in the orientation and clearance of added PDS cards within the case. Some cards will fit both machines and some will not. This is the only compatibility the SE/30 PDS shares with any other Mac.

* See below for small correction

 

[commodorejohn]

No luck with the patched version, either. I think I might just have to shell out for a long-shank Torx bit...

 

[Charlieman]

In the meantime, shove SCSI Probe onto one of your boot floppies and see what it reports about the hard disk. If it only reports the host controller, you'll know that your disk is dead.

 

[commodorejohn]

Hmm. Version 5.2 is the version of SCSI Probe I can find, but it claims to require SCSI Manager 4.3, and I'm just about out of space on the disk tools floppy. Is there an earlier version that doesn't require it? Where could I find that?

 

[Charlieman]

SCSI Probe:

Version 5.2 -- requires Mac OS 7.x or higher (final version?). Requires SCSI Manager 4.3

Version 4.3 -- supports multiple SCSI buses, some conflicts with System 7.5. Works with System 6 and 7.

Version 3.5 -- first version that works with SCSI Manager 4.3.

 

[Bunsen]

You could try Lido, although I'm not sure how large it is or what OS it needs to run. It's never failed me with third party SCSI drives.

 

[commodorejohn]

Looks like it's a System 7 app, so I'll give it a try and see what happens. I finally broke down and purchased an extra-extra-long shank Torx bit, so I should be able to open the computer up for a look in the near future.

 

[commodorejohn]

Okay, after obtaining the mother of all Torx screwdrivers (18" blade! Longer than the computer is deep!) since I couldn't find a more appropriately-sized one for cheaper, I opened up my SE/30. Tried replacing the hard drive with the one from my IIsi, and it booted halfway before complaining that it didn't have the right system software, so it looks like the hard drive is indeed the problem. Which is okay, since it's only a 40MB drive and I was wanting to put something a little bigger in anyway.

One other question: the sound is very faint or entirely silent, even when I turn the volume up all the way via control panel, even when using headphones. Any idea what the cause of this would be?

 

[Unknown_K]

Bad capacitors in the audio section.

 

[commodorejohn]

Ah, that'll be interesting to address. Wonder if I can get a replacement analog board for cheap...

 

[Unknown_K]

Just recap the main board to fix the sound, I did both of my SE/30's.

 

[commodorejohn]

Yeah, I suppose. Never re-capped anything before, but there's a first time for everything...

 

[Bunsen]

The IIsi PDS slot is identical, the difference is in the orientation

Small correction: the SE/30 runs at 16MHz, and the IIsi at 20MHz. Some cards will handle both speeds, and some will not.

/ETA/ Large correction: the IIsi Nubus adapter will not work in the SE/30.

Definitive SE/30 IIsi 030 PDS card and adapter breakdown - scroll to comment #17

from Peripherals: LINKS Project

 

[commodorejohn]

Well, I have obtained a new hard drive for use with the SE/30. Unfortunately, that means more contending with the vagaries of SCSI configuration. Here's how it's sitting at the moment. The drive I bought is an IBM 92F0428 1GB drive (looks from what I can find like this is just a re-branded Maxtor.) Going by the label on the drive, there are five valid jumper positions: three for ID, one for termination, and one labeled "M" that I have no idea what it does (can't find any documentation for the drive, either.) When I hook it into my SE/30, HD SC Setup gives me the same spiel about being unable to find a hard drive, and I can't get Lido on the SE/30, since it requires System 6.0.4 or later and I only have 6.0.2 and 7.5, which won't let me eject the boot floppy.

I've also tried connecting the drive to my IIsi via an external enclosure (after changing the ID number however, this seems to drive it various forms of batty. If I leave the external enclosure off, I can boot the IIsi and get Lido loaded; however, as soon as I power it on and re-scan the bus, it freezes.

Can anybody help me figure out what to do here? I'm completely at a loss.