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Early Mac 128K won't start up!

reject902

Well-known member
Hey everyone. So I just had a pretty interesting find. I came across a Mac 128k along with original box and numeric keypad for $60. :)

This thing is probably in some of the best shape I've ever seen a unit come in. It has practically no yellowing at all! Anyways, I was all excited and gave her a light cleaning and then plugged her in to discover.. nothing.. When I flick the switch on I hear the power supply make a little juice sound and the light in the disk drive just glows red. No beeps, no screen. So I was about to crack her open, when for some reason I thought I'd check the serial to see how old she was.. Well this is what I got: "Your Macintosh 128 (M0001), with serial number F4010R2M0001, was the 852d manufactured during the 1st week of 1984 in Fremont, CA."

?!?! Am I reading this right?? Did I really come across *THE* 852nd Macintosh made!? The serial on the box is the same but ends with "M1000" though.. Which I thought was strange. Either way it says its the 852nd!

So anyways, now I'm scared to open it and to start tinkering with it. What could be the culprit here? Would it be better to have someone professionally restore this, like is there value at stake here? Not that I'm looking at selling it, but I just want her to work!

Arrg! Soo sad now! :(

Any suggestions guys?

Thanks!

 

Mac128

Well-known member
?!?! Am I reading this right?? Did I really come across *THE* 852nd Macintosh made!?
You are reading it right, but it's not the 852nd Macintosh ever made. It' the 852nd made during the first week of 1984. Its pretty certain Apple was manufacturing production models as early as the first part of December 1983, if not earlier. And since the plant was manufacturing in expectation of a volume of around 500,000+ Macs per year, they were likely manufacturing somewhere in the neighborhood of 6,000-8,000 Macs/week (the plant could produce a completed unit every 27 seconds). So yours is like the 28,852nd Mac ever made.

What could be the culprit here? Would it be better to have someone professionally restore this, like is there value at stake here?
As far as not starting, it could be relatively simple, or it could be major. Since the disk drive has power (the red LED), you know the problem is on the analogue board starting the video circuitry. In order to make it work, you'll need to get a torx screwdriver long enough to access the most recessed screws. Once inside, we can guide you what to look for, but you'll need to be comfortable using a soldering iron or, know someone who can help you. Considering the value, I would hate to start shipping it around to other folks who might offer to repair and risk loss or damage. However, with the money you saved you could buy a working analogue board off eBay and just swap it out. I believe I saw them recently for $79.

However, first things first ... it's possible that the voltage just needs to be adjusted, i.e. it's too low to "turn over the engine". That would be the best case scenario. But it's just as likely you need to replace a capacitor or two. Either way, you need to get 'er open and start reporting your findings.

Here's a document to get you started down the parth you're going to have to walk one day or another: http://68kmla.org/files/classicmac2.pdf

 
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reject902

Well-known member
Yea, I started to realize that just before I read your post. Clearly I was getting too excited LOL.

 

reject902

Well-known member
I just looked over the link referenced, and it's saying that if I have no display and still hear the startup bong it's the analog board. On my 128k it's not making the start up bong, it's just silence and the disk drive light constantly glowing red.. :-/

I'm about to go check voltage, I'll report back with my findings later!

 

Mac128

Well-known member
Have you tried adjusting the brightness control under the lower front left lip? Wouldn't it be funny if that's all it was.

If not, it could be almost anything at this point. It could have smoked and sparked and put on quite a show in the past when it blew, and just do nothing now. It could be as simple as cleaning the connector cables at J4 & J7. Or a cracked joint on pin 1 & 3 of the J4 connector. But you should see some kind of activity on the screen, especially if you smack it on the left side. If adjusting the brightness does nothing, it could be any one or more of 7 capacitors, all of which should probably be replaced anyway.

It could be the flyback transformer needs to be replaced. Not an easy item to find. If that's OK, CR-21 may need to be replaced. If that's OK, you may need to replace any or all of the switching power supply components, including R46, R47, R49, R50, Q9, Q10, Q11, FU1 and possibly others. It could also be CR5 and Q3.

There is also the remote possibility that the TSM PAL and LAG PAL on the logicboard are bad and must be replaced, probably along with U2 on the analogue board.

 
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beachycove

Well-known member
Someone gave me a Plus a year or so ago that likewise had "bad video." Turned out that the brightness knob was turned down, that was all. Worked a treat once that technical hurdle was overcome.

The sound could also be turned right down in the Control Panel, could it not? (For all I have used the machines more or less daily for twenty years, I have never set in front of a Mac running any System prior to 6.)

 

Mac128

Well-known member
The sound could also be turned right down in the Control Panel, could it not?
Probably not the startup bong on the 128K. It should always make that bong unless something is plugged into the headphone jack. If the brightness knob works, then he still has a problem with the sound somewhere. I actually forgot it made no bong, so more than likely it is a bigger problem than simply turning up the brightness.

I've never tested it, but I suppose it's possible the sound control panel settings can be saved in the PRAM. However, that also assumes that it has a working backup battery since those settings were last adjusted. And it assumes that any startup disk he's using also has the same settings (which would override saved settings). But it would be easy to check, just take out the Backup battery, and start it up. Somehow I think the 128K does not save sound settings though as I've never heard one bong softly.

 

reject902

Well-known member
Arrg! My wonderful father gave away our mutilmeter.. Guess I'll need to buy one tomorrow to test the voltage.

I did try the brightness, but yeah, it did nothing. As for the sound, I took the old battery (wow old school energizer logo!) out earlier today, and it had been unplugged for awhile before I tried it again. No sounds still :(

 

reject902

Well-known member
So I still haven't purchased a voltmeter yet (work all day) but late last night I did bite the bullet and popped her open. I was definitely the first one to do that to her. I couldn't so much as see a fingerprint in there! And, surprisingly, I could barely find traces of dust! The inside of her looked immaculate! I only peeked inside for a few moments before I went to bed. But from what I can see the analog board is looking good. I couldn't find any signs of bad capacitors or that. It's def a first rev analog board tho, as it has the metal shield across the top. The board is original the original as well, no signs of any mods in here. It looked so new in there, that I just couldn't touch anything yet! I'm going to get a antistatic bad before I go poking around in it and that. I'm taking things with extra caution on this one!

Now, I was just wondering. If an analog board goes bad, you can get a bum display or no sound out of the speaker right? (as well as volt fluctuations) but anyways, I plugged headphones into the audio out on it, and flicked the switch just to see. I don't hear the start up bong out of it either. I hear a click through the headphones when I turn it, so obviously some sort of power is coming there. But later on, if I probe the floppy port and fine the volts are good, does this mean I'm probably looking at a bad logic board?

 

trag

Well-known member
As long as you have it open, look at the ROM sockets and make sure they're populated. If the ROMs were removed it wouldn't bong or anything else. If they are present, you may wish to lift and reseat them (carefully!).

 

Mac128

Well-known member
I was definitely the first one to do that to her. I couldn't so much as see a fingerprint in there! ... if I probe the floppy port and fine the volts are good, does this mean I'm probably looking at a bad logic board?
Not to burst your bubble (again), but an ultra clean unit is gurantee that someone else hasn't violated her. :beige: What you want to look for is evidence of scraping near the bottom rear of the case where the metal chassis has rubbed against the case from where it was re-assembled. If they are present most likely it's been opened before.

It is unlikely that this Mac just "stopped working" in storage if you don't see any evidence of cap leakage. That said, there is a possibility of corrosion on the power pins as I described above. The first thing you want to do, before you do ANYTHING else, is pull all the connectors apart. This means the J4 & J7 connectors between the CRT and logicboard and the analogue board. If you see any tarnish or corrosion you should clean the contacts. Merely disconnecting and reconnecting can often fix problems like this. As Trag mentioned, pry up the ROMs (assuming they are there) check for tarnish, clean if necessary and reinsert. If that does not fix it, then off to check the voltage which you need to do regardless if these steps work to avoid a much bigger problem.

If none of that works, then you are going to hate the next step ... you are going to need to pry off the vinyl or (more likely with your vintage) cardboard panel on the outside of the analogue board. You are going to rip the original square double-stick pads all to hell, so don't worry about it. They are in the wrong places anyway, will need to be completely cleaned off the analogue board and eventually replaced. Just try not to tear the cardboard cover (which is as rare as the top metal shield).

If the cardboard cover is black, as many early models are, it's going to be much harder to check for burns to help isolate problem caps. Hopefully you have a white one. The pads will also show scorch marks since they tended to cover the part of the board that fried most often. (Bad Apple!) Then remove the entire analogue board for careful examination.

If you still don't see any obvious damage you're going to have to test all of the problematic locations with a multi-meter, or better yet, just wholesale replace all the caps – they need it anyway. Most of the time this will fix any problem (according to Larry Pina, whose book Macintosh Repair and Upgrade Guide you really need to get). But before you do ANY of that, try re-flowing all of the J4 & J7 pins on the analogue board, as that may fix any broken joints, which is a very common problem.

As I said before, this is most likely not your logic board. If the analogue board is not able to provide enough power to startup the Mac, you're not going to hear a bong. That bong tells you everything checks out, and if no power is getting to it to run the built-in startup diagnostic, then it can't very well report back. The fact that your display is dark strongly suggests the analogue board. It's too bad you don't have another logic board to throw in there though just to rule that possibility out. Even if you get the analogue board checked out, there's no guarantee you wont have problems on the logic board too.

Not to discourage you but I have an early January 128K in pristine condition as well, with the same original features as yours and looks like it has never been opened, except that it has ... someone checked every connection on the back of the analogue board with a multimeter as evidenced by a red marker used to check-off each solder joint for component tested. And I'm here to tell you after repeating much of this work, mine is no closer to working than it was before I tested every component on it. The CRT works, the logic board works, but the analogue board just doesn't. Because it is in pristine stock condition, I have not yet replaced all the caps as it is sort of a "time-capsule" representation. I did desolder the flyback and found it works perfectly on another analogue board and a known working one did not fix the problem on this analogue board. So whoever tested mine originally, just stuck it on a NF pile, rather than put any more time into it, and it was never touched again until somebody cleared it out of storage and I bought it on eBay.

Hopefully, you dod not have a similar situation, but if you do, you're in for a lot of work (one of the reasons I haven't just replaced everything on mine too). If it gets this far, you might just want to buy a new analogue board, especially if you intend to actually use your 128K.

The only way to really test your logic board and analogue board independently is to get another compatible Mac. A Mac Plus is a good Mac to have because thy are cheap, they can format 400K disks and have SCSI access which is one of the few ways to transfer files between a modern Mac and Mac lacking a SWIM. Pick up a good working one off of eBay and then swap out the parts. This will at least pin down your problem and give you a working analogue board for your 128K if that's indeed the problem, while you repair the old one.

 

reject902

Well-known member
Finally got around to checking voltage on the floppy port today.

Here's the results:

PIN 5: -13.50

PIN 6: +5.25

PIN 7: +13.63

PIN 8: +13.62

Suggestions?

Sorry guys, I'm pretty rusty with this stuff.

Thanks again,

Andrew

 

reject902

Well-known member
Yea I read that. I was curious as to if the voltage should be adjusted down or if that's considered still within acceptable range. It's just under the 15% overage mark, so I wondered of it should be adjusted down still or not. I was thinking no tho since the CRT and board isn't fired up when I boot so it wasn't creating a strong enough draw. I was just curious tho that with those voltage readings, does that rule the analog board out? I've reseated all connectors and I can't seem to find any cracked solder joints or bad caps.

 

Mac128

Well-known member
so I wondered of it should be adjusted down still or not. I was thinking no tho since the CRT and board isn't fired up when I boot so it wasn't creating a strong enough draw. I was just curious tho that with those voltage readings, does that rule the analog board out? I've reseated all connectors and I can't seem to find any cracked solder joints or bad caps.
you've answered your own question.If you're not using the Mac, the high voltages doesn't matter, which is likely the result of the CRT not drawing any power.

And no the analogue board is not ruled out. You need to start being very specific at this point if we are going to be able to help you. Did you just visually inspect the joints and suspect caps for any physical damage? Or did you test all those caps with a multimeter, and re-flow the solder at all specified joints? Did you remove the cardboard or vinyl panel to look for any signs of burning? Have you tested the other suspect components with a multimeter (some out of circuit)?

Assuming you did all that, let's say for the sake of argument that your analogue board checks out OK. Do you know what your next step would be? If the problem is on the logic board, the only known cause for your symptoms I know of is to replace an IC on it, and given your symptoms, an IC would also have to be replaced on the analogue board no matter what. So you still have a repair to make on both regardless of whether the rest of the circuitry is good.

I believe you have everything you need to thoroughly test your Mac. Again I would pick up the Pina book too. Personally you could not pay me enough to go through the whole analogue board with a multimeter looking for one or two failed parts. If it were mine, I would simply start replacing all the known trouble components on the board (which have reached the end of their lifespan anyway) using this excellent guide by JDW.

 
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