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Classilla 9.2

ClassicHasClass

Well-known member
Classilla 9.2 is out today. Here's what I posted to the Mac OS 9 list, for your entertainment. :eek:) This is posted with it, natch.

Classilla 9.2 is out today. After some consideration, there may be a gap where

I won't have time to work on it for awhile, so I'll release what I have since

it's mostly workable even though it is kludgey (remember, it *is* alpha-level

software).

As promised, Classilla 9.2 rewrites JavaScript completely and the SpiderMonkey

interpreter it uses is almost exactly the same as Mozilla Firefox 3.0.19.

This literally cuts its benchmark time in half (the 1.8GHz dual G4 build host

reduced SunSpider from 32 seconds with 9.1 to 16 seconds with 9.2; the quad

G5 in Classic went from 25 seconds to 12 seconds [for comparison, Firefox

3.6.3 on the same machine with TraceMonkey is 4.6 seconds]). It also repairs

almost all of the outstanding crash bugs, meaning JavaScript should be a lot

more stable on sites like Blogspot and iFixit.

What is only partially updated in this version is the Document Object Model,

which connects JavaScript to layout. I did do some minor updates to fix

regressions (i.e., pages that used to work with JavaScript on, but didn't

after the new interpreter was switched on), particularly for Flickr and

jQuery, but DOM and layout are inextricably linked and significant updates

can't be done without updating the other. I'm planning to do a comprehensive

rewrite of layout and DOM, like JavaScript, in 9.3 -- that was too much to

do in this version.

That means the full benefit of the new interpreter unfortunately is not

completely realized in 9.2, but here is the result of my testing on a few

high profile sites:

iFixit doesn't crash anymore.

Wikipedia's new default skin now almost completely works (I haven't really

stress-tested article editing however). The disclosure arrows also work,

which didn't in 9.1.

Amazon still works, though it always treated Classilla as a basic browser

in any case and still does.

Apple's pages almost completely work. (There is also a layout update relevant

to that; read on.)

The New York Times almost completely works, whereas in 9.1 you couldn't

even click on links with JavaScript enabled.

eBay mostly works. The menus now reappear and My eBay also mostly works,

although I can't get feedback to show up still.

Google treats Classilla as an advanced browser now, and the search page

comes up with the enhanced AJAX search box. The side bars also open and

close. I still don't recommend using a custom user agent though with it.

Maps only partially works; I still recommend using their Basic HTML

version. Calendar and Docs still hardly work at all. Gmail is about the

same, but Groups is a lot faster now.

Paypal mostly works, though layout all-stop is still needed for the main

page.

Flickr still works (I didn't test uploading, I don't have an account),

though it is slightly slower.

Twitter almost completely works, but it is glacially slow. That said,

Camino 1.6 is also really slow with Twitter, so this may be a really tough

nut to crack with the code at my disposal. I still recommend the mobile

version.

Facebook appears to work, and no errors appear, but clicking on many

tabs doesn't do anything (at least you can log out and get to the

[worthless] privacy settings). The Touch Facebook (touch.facebook.com) does

almost completely work, even slideshows (!), though you will need to

Command-scroll (see below) through the feeds. I still recommend the mobile

version.

Yahoo! partially works, though using the search tabs doesn't seem to do

anything different, and Yahoo! Mail is very slow with JavaScript on (but

then, it didn't work at all before, so ...). I still recommend using

Yahoo! with JavaScript off. Sorry, Chuck :-(

The Wall Street Journal has more elements that work, and runs faster,

but the article strip at the top of the page still doesn't work and

some elements ignore clicks.

CNN is about the same. NewsPulse still has a lot of layout problems. Most

articles still render pretty well.

Fox News is about the same and still has a lot of layout problems. I still

recommend reading Fox News with JavaScript off.

Low End Mac still works fine ;-)

As you can see from that, the improvement is more evolutionary than

revolutionary, but hopefully you will see similar improvements on the

sites that you visit.

There are also a couple minor layout updates. The most important one is

a change to the way certain floated elements handle their overflow, which

changed in 9.1 and caused a number of sites like Google and Twitter to

show "ghosted" or doubled images. On Apple's site it was particularly bad

because if you clicked on the ghost, the browser would get confused and

then *no* link worked (you had to reload the page). The old 1.3-descended

Clecko just can't handle the combination, so there is a tweak in layout

to disable this particular layout structure.

This fixes Apple, Google, Twitter, yFrog and a crapload of other sites, but

has the downside of causing the browser to believe a handful of pages are

wider than they actually are. Unfortunately 68KMLA forum threads and other

phpBB threads that use that skin are one of those handful. The page will

still look and work fine, but scroll slower.

So enter the other layout tweak: Command-scrolling. In 9.1 I added Use

Slow Scroll for pages where the regular fast scrolling broke (this should

be fixed when the new layout lands ... I hope). Because this is inconvenient

to run back and forth for single pages, 9.2 allows you to hold down the

Command key as you scroll, forcing Classilla to use an alternate scrolling

method. If the page uses fast scrolling and fragments, hold down Command

as you scroll or mousewheel, and Classilla will slow scroll until you release

Command. If the page is one of those few affected pages and uses slow

scroll even when it doesn't have to, hold down Command also as you scroll,

and Classilla will fast scroll. I know this is kludgey, but at least it's

better than nothing, and the best I can do right now. You can still click

on Use Slow Scroll to make the setting sticky.

Finally, all-stop. In 9.1 I added Cmd-Period for cancelling layout if it

hung up on a bug, and I expanded that in 9.2 to a couple other places that

seemed subject to freezing. The OS 9 list also really liked the idea of

having Cmd-Period cancel scripts, which was a suggestion someone sent me

anonymously via Report-A-Bug. This *isn't* as clean, because the script may

have partially installed event handlers or other hooks that may cause the

current appshell to act weird as there is no code for them to run. If you

cancel a script, you should close that window or tab, and reload it with

JavaScript off just to make sure weird things don't happen. If JavaScript

is off, you don't need to worry about that.

Also:

- Theming is specifically supported, and you should get an error now

if you try to theme without software installation on (Brian Deuel).

- I changed the way plugins are enumerated. This should help Alex with

SIDPlay (let me know).

- A couple more crash bugs found and countered, in printing and mailnews.

- New easter egg.

I am not so interested in what doesn't work as in what *used to work* and

doesn't now. Those regressions I want to fix in 9.2.1. Also, I plan to

redo the NoScript front end as Script-B-Gone in 9.2.1 and put an end to

the NoScript whitelist not updating or remembering once and for all. While

a full NoScript is not possible because Clecko lacks the needed XUL

controls, I do want to significantly improve it since I also rely on it.

Anyway, forgive the sawdust and I hope you find 9.2 useful.

http://www.classilla.org/
 

mx-v

Well-known member
Awesome.

Thank you (and everyone who contibuted) so much, I love this piece of software. :)

 

Hrududu

Well-known member
This is truly amazing. Classilla is super important to keeping OS 9 usable in the modern internet era. I am a huge fan!

 

avw

Well-known member
Cameron you are the best!

Crazy idea: how much would it be to free you from struggle of earning money? I would be willing to send you $5 or $10 a month so that you can focus on Classilla! If another 200-300 people would go along with me, we could free our Open Source maintainer from other tasks.

 

mx-v

Well-known member
avw got an interesting idea. Surely we could put up some kind of foundation to support development of Free/OSS software for OS 9.

But then.. how? Having a bunch of people saying "yea, I'll send you 10$ a month" isn't going to cut it. ;) But I'm sure there's a way.. maybe beginning by evaluating how many potential users Classilla have? Then if the numbers are good, put up some kind of non-profit organisation?

Anyone with experience in such endeavor?

 

ClassicHasClass

Well-known member
Whoa, whoa, before we go too far! 8-o

First off, there is no way you could pay my current monthly salary, for those who know what my actual occupation is. :p That said, I explicitly decline donations to Classilla, because money breeds expectations I may not be able to meet. Remember I was sidelined for awhile because of that infamous issue 65. Nothing says I won't get mired in some critical failure like that in the future that may take me awhile to code around, if it's even possible.

Plus, I write Classilla for *me*. I like using my TiBook, it feels friendlier and gets better battery life than a MacBook or even my long suffering iBook. This lets me use a friendly OS that I feel like I have full control over rather than developing for OS X where the landscape keeps changing because Steve-O got a hemorrhoid or something. It just so happens that there is a need for Classilla from other people, but even if no one else used it, I would still be working on it because it liberates my choices with the computers I can use.

I do think that a foundation for OSS solutions for abandoned operating systems is a good one. I myself would contribute to something like that. I don't think there is the user base solely in the classic Mac world for it, but combining forces with other systems may be useful. (I was going to suggest AmigaOS, but actually AmigaOS4 has a shocking amount of software available for it, even a port of WebKit as Origyn Web Browser. But maybe OS/2, or Atari ST?)

Anyway, I dig the enthusiasm, but I can say without a trace of waffling I'll never be asking a dime for Classilla or accepting donations. It's just simpler not to. :b&w:

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
The list of fixes and enhancements and web sites that I just never thought would work well on OS 9 on here is just astounding. I've got an old digital Audio G4 here at the office that I'm putting Tiger on right now, and in the next few days I will probably also put 9.2.1/9.2.2 on it, just so I can see Classilla 9.2 in action, it sounds fantastic.

 

avw

Well-known member
@ mx-v, of course it would need a kind of foundation, or better, a real non-profit organisation. This message here was just a first "trial ballon" how the feedback goes ;)

If you look at the numbers of downloads, and also think about further channels Classilla binaries took, I would expect about more than 5000 users on a dily basis! I also think there are much more MacOS 9 users as Classilla Users!

@ Cameron, I did not think about collecting your "current monthly salary". It was more the question, what you would need for living. Also I never intended to collect donations "for Classilla". If there would be a chance at all, I should strictly be like "community is financing the live of our maintainer, so that he can fucus on that task". I hope the difference is clear, even with my poor english.

The only problem I would see (if you were interrested) would be the part about expectations - that really poses a chellenge!

 

ClassicHasClass

Well-known member
Ah, I get it. And yes, I suspect there are a lot of standalone OS 9 users out there. I still see people visiting with IE 5 and wamcom and even IE 4 and Netscape 7. It's interesting to see OS 9 usage still present in the background -- it's not just me. :D

 

Emehr

Well-known member
"...rather than developing for OS X where the landscape keeps changing because Steve-O got a hemorrhoid or something"

lol, I know what you mean. I enthusiatically jumped into learning Cocoa when Panther was the new hotness. Unfortunately, real life always kept me from digging in too deep but it seems like every time I went back to it, a whole slew of methods got deprecated! so I had to find another way to do something painfully simple. So I shelved my Cocoa books until the deprecation party ceases and I went back to coding for Classic in my spare time. At least with that I know things won't change every six months. Gotta finish that adventure/RPG one of these days! :p

Anyway, thanks for keeping the Classic Mac OS spirit alive with Classilla!

 

Unknown_K

Well-known member
I stick with OS 9.x even on machines that can run OSX native, it is my choice. So somebody developing a classic browser is good news to me. I still use IE5/IE6 on Win2k and older PCs to browse the web, and firefox on problem sites.

Ten years from now nothing 68k/PPC will be able to browse the net at all the ways things are going.

 

ClassicHasClass

Well-known member
Yes, it's unfortunate. Some of the elements of HTML 5 I can adapt, but I know I won't be able to do all of it.

Still, hope exists. After all, Mozilla 1.3.1 did very well for many people for many years, warts and all. It certainly did for me until I started seeing more sites than not that didn't work with it.

 

ppuskari

Well-known member
Just had to type up my many thanks and amazement for Classilla 9.2

I'm writing this up on a P4 3.06 GHZ Hyperthreaded WIn XP Pro Sheepshaver OS 9.04 system :)

The speed of browsing really isn't that bad at all, and just the fact that ethernet works in emulation as well as sound and there's a browser is awesome!

Next up is to see what I can change in the source of SS to not have to unplug my ethernet cable at startup to avoid the C++ crash....

My many thanks to ClassicHasClass for this fine app!

 

Nathan

Well-known member
Yeah, at this rate we'll need proxy servers to convert pages back to deprecated standards to even use the browser on computers this old. As long as there are still web servers that will still server plain text html we're good. Not like you really wanted most of that multimedia crap that shows up anyway. Does classilla handle php okay? I'm too lazy to fire up my imac again tonight to check.

 

ClassicHasClass

Well-known member
PHP? As long as the server is emitting HTML it should be okay ...

Incidentally, I discovered to my delight that Readability (the actual muscle behind Safari 5's "Reader" function) works pretty much perfectly in Classilla 9.2. Try it for yourself (JavaScript must be on): http://lab.arc90.com/experiments/readability/

Readability turns article pages into simpler layouts (click the bookmarklet you drag into your toolbar and it reformats the page by feeding it to a script that restyles it). This is a real godsend for pages that take too long to layout in 9.2, or on slow systems. But since it needs JS to be on, the logical approach is to incorporate Readability into Classilla as chrome (which I can do, since it is Apache-licensed). I'm planning to add C-D-Article for 9.2.1 along with the new NoScript front end, Script-B-Gone.

Really, it is a superb little tool. I'm excited to see it working! It'll be fun to have the same feature built in as Apple's leading-edge Safari build.

 

techfury90

Well-known member
Prepare for the most insane feature request/question you'll have.

Is it possible to get MRJ to run Java applets in Classilla?

Before you ask, I actually have a VERY good reason for it. The OS/400 V5R2 Information Center (circa 2002) uses a Java applet to navigate documentation for OS/400. In IE, the applet loads and runs just fine... so if I can run just that applet in Classilla, i'm set. :)

 
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