Beige G3 wont boot OS8 if ATAPI ZIP is connected

[BitAnnihilator]

Ran across a weird issue with my Beige G3 and wanted to see if anyone has any thoughts/ideas.

My beige G3 has a built in ATAPI ZIP drive, connected as slave on the same bus as the CD-RW drive. As long as the drive is connected, OS8/8.1 CDs will not boot from the internal drive, 8.5 and up boots fine. The same CDs boot on the machine if I disconnect the ZIP drive. Interestingly I can manage to get around this by using an external SCSI CD-ROM, that also boots the 8.0/8.1 CDs. The ROM is a Rev3. Thoughts?

 

[DarthNvader]

Rev A Beiges don't support Slave drives, that could cause oddball issues.

 

[BitAnnihilator]

I'll check that out - it's odd because it looks like this was the factory config with the CD and ZIP on the same chain.

 

[NJRoadfan]

That is the factory configuration in my beige G3. If you have the latest ROM, it should work fine. That limitation was mostly an OS X thing anyway.

 

[croissantking]

Ran across a weird issue with my Beige G3 and wanted to see if anyone has any thoughts/ideas.

Could be the Beige not liking the aftermarket CD-RW drive. Maybe either the drive or the Mac doesn’t fully conform to ATA standards or something like that.

Why not try reversing the Master/Slave configuration and having the Zip drive as Master? This might just resolve your issues although note that you won’t be able to boot off the CD drive with an OS X disc.

That is the factory configuration in my beige G3. If you have the latest ROM, it should work fine. That limitation was mostly an OS X thing anyway.

I’d say it’s the opposite, mostly an OS 8/9 thing, because actually OS X lets you use an ATA drive in Slave mode even if you have a Beige G3 with Rev A ROM.

Agreed that the setup should work fine for OP as they have a Rev C ROM.

 

[DarthNvader]

Didn't the Beige come with a SCSI CDROM and a SCSI 100 ZIP drive?

That's how mine came.

Like I say Rev. A Beiges don't 'support' drives on the slave bus of ATA, it's not going to work correct that way. I'm unsure if Rev. B Beiges support slave devices, pretty sure Rev. C Beiges do.

What is also unclear is putting a Rev C ROM SIMM into a Rev A/B and if that would make slave devices work, or if it's a limitation of the logic board itself?????

 

[finkmac]

https://www.macdat.net/files/pdf/apple/servicesource/powermac_g3_minitower.pdf

https://www.macdat.net/files/pdf/apple/servicesource/powermac_g3_desktop.pdf

according to the service source:

• Optional 100 MB SCSI Iomega or ATAPI Zip drive in one of the expansion bays
• CD-ROM ATAPI drive at 24X speed (unless customer orders DVD-ROM drive)

 

[croissantking]

Didn't the Beige come with a SCSI CDROM and a SCSI 100 ZIP drive?

That's how mine came.

I have never seen a Beige G3 with a stock SCSI CD-ROM drive, as far as I know they all came with an ATAPI CD-ROM drive set to master. Early machines came with a SCSI ZIP drive and later ones were ATAPI as well, this would have been on the same channel as the CD and set to slave.

Like I say Rev. A Beiges don't 'support' drives on the slave bus of ATA, it's not going to work correct that way. I'm unsure if Rev. B Beiges support slave devices, pretty sure Rev. C Beiges do.

Rev B and C ROM revisions both support slave devices.

What is also unclear is putting a Rev C ROM SIMM into a Rev A/B and if that would make slave devices work, or if it's a limitation of the logic board itself?????

There are two revisions of motherboard, but slave support is entirely a feature of the ROM so you can upgrade an early motherboard with a newer ROM and gain slave support.

 

[DarthNvader]

https://www.macdat.net/files/pdf/apple/servicesource/powermac_g3_minitower.pdf

https://www.macdat.net/files/pdf/apple/servicesource/powermac_g3_desktop.pdf

according to the service source:

• Optional 100 MB SCSI Iomega or ATAPI Zip drive in one of the expansion bays
• CD-ROM ATAPI drive at 24X speed (unless customer orders DVD-ROM drive)

Hmmm.... I'll have to dig out my Beige and check again, but I'm pretty sure the CDROM is SCSI, must have a very early production run.