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Audio Waveform Visualizer for Mac 512k to SE/30?
- Thread starter JDW
- Start date
Crutch
Well-known member
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JDW
Well-known member
Thanks for the tip. HOWEVER...
I tested that app in Mini vMac just now, but it merely moves a vertical line through a static waveform. I am thinking of a very basic version of the old iTunes visualizer. When the audio is playing, I want a very basic, B&W waveform to animate. When the audio is finished, the waveform flatlines. Basically, I am looking for line animation of the amplitude and frequency of an audio file. Any ideas?
I tested that app in Mini vMac just now, but it merely moves a vertical line through a static waveform. I am thinking of a very basic version of the old iTunes visualizer. When the audio is playing, I want a very basic, B&W waveform to animate. When the audio is finished, the waveform flatlines. Basically, I am looking for line animation of the amplitude and frequency of an audio file. Any ideas?
JDW
Well-known member
Another name for it might be "Reactive Audio." If you Google that, you'll see modern implementations of it. I don't want something fancy. Just a white waveform on a black screen, moving according to whatever audio is playing, is all I am seeking. I just don't remember if there was anything like that back in the day for 9" CRT Macs.
My aim here is to play audio of the Mac talking and I want a visual representation on the CRT because, well, I'm going to make a video of it and I think it would look pretty cool.
Thoughts?
My aim here is to play audio of the Mac talking and I want a visual representation on the CRT because, well, I'm going to make a video of it and I think it would look pretty cool.
Thoughts?
KnobsNSwitches
Well-known member
I'm not sure if a compact mac has the horsepower to do what you're looking for, exactly. I have a color classic I had hoped to use as a music visualizer, but in my searches I did not find anything that is would run on a 68k.
GeForce and WhiteCap both are PPC only and can listen on the mic input like you are looking for, and WhiteCap at least you can write you own configs so it would be possible on a powerpc mac.
GeForce and WhiteCap both are PPC only and can listen on the mic input like you are looking for, and WhiteCap at least you can write you own configs so it would be possible on a powerpc mac.
JDW
Well-known member
The 128k through the SE do not have enough power, I know. But an accelerated SE/30 might. I believe that because I can play full screen Cinepak video (albeit at 12fps) on my SE/30. You can see that in my video here. Even though that looks like a Mac 128k (and it is), I masked in the CRT of my SE/30 playing that video. So if it can play video that well, it should be able to a simple line waveform that animates according to the audio file being played. Regardless, if there's no SE/30 compatible software that can do that, the point is moot.
techknight
Well-known member
To do those kinds of visualizations takes an immense amount of processing power.
You may be able to use integer-based math and show an "oscilloscope" like waveform on the screen, but it certainly wont be fast. you basically have to sample the audio at a given frequency, and record the dB levels of each sample in a table for a given time period.
Then this table is painted in a graph on screen. Lots of math work that an FPU would be good at doing, but with a certain degree of error, can be done with integers only.
Spectrum Analyzer visualization FFT? You may be able to use some optimized routines that were targeted for 8-bit MCUs like the Atmel AVR/PIC since they are table based. But again, the sampling takes the most amount of overhead and RAM.
did software exist to do this back then? Yea kinda. probably not on a Mac though. However given the knowledge we have today with doing oscillographs and DFT/FFT on a RISC microcontroller, it can probably be done.
Back in the old days, I used CD Spectrum Pro on windows and it worked ok but it really needed a pentium. a 486 could do it with Goldwave, but only like a 7 band visualizer. 386 was too choppy and had lots of lag.
This topic has kind of peaked my interest because I have been meaning to write a program to do something like this one day on a vintage mac, but my plan was to use external hardware for sampling etc. Would be interesting if it could be pulled off using entirely the original hardware. it would have to be written and compiled in highly optimized C, no way around that.
You may be able to use integer-based math and show an "oscilloscope" like waveform on the screen, but it certainly wont be fast. you basically have to sample the audio at a given frequency, and record the dB levels of each sample in a table for a given time period.
Then this table is painted in a graph on screen. Lots of math work that an FPU would be good at doing, but with a certain degree of error, can be done with integers only.
Spectrum Analyzer visualization FFT? You may be able to use some optimized routines that were targeted for 8-bit MCUs like the Atmel AVR/PIC since they are table based. But again, the sampling takes the most amount of overhead and RAM.
did software exist to do this back then? Yea kinda. probably not on a Mac though. However given the knowledge we have today with doing oscillographs and DFT/FFT on a RISC microcontroller, it can probably be done.
Back in the old days, I used CD Spectrum Pro on windows and it worked ok but it really needed a pentium. a 486 could do it with Goldwave, but only like a 7 band visualizer. 386 was too choppy and had lots of lag.
This topic has kind of peaked my interest because I have been meaning to write a program to do something like this one day on a vintage mac, but my plan was to use external hardware for sampling etc. Would be interesting if it could be pulled off using entirely the original hardware. it would have to be written and compiled in highly optimized C, no way around that.
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Crutch
Well-known member
Yeah, but if JDW just wants something that displays a nice visual as a sound is played, you could do all the calculations in advance: break the sound file up into little time chunks, do an FFT on each chunk, then display the graph of each FFT in sequence as the sound is played. There’s no need to actually do the FFT in real time.
Byrd
Well-known member
As a suggestion try PlayerPRO 4, it has the visualisations you want but I'm not sure on B&W and compact resolution support. I don't recall any decent visualisation programs in the day - my 386 in the day could do very basic visualisation playing .MODs at 320 x 200 resolution; don't expect much. A 486 did it well.
JDW
Well-known member
Thanks. I downloaded Player Pro 4.5 and am testing it in System 7.5.5, currently in Mini vMac (Mac II version). Player Pro 4.5 loads fine, but I cannot for the life of me play any audio files! I've tried vintage Mac audio files with no success (they won't even open), and I've tried a WAV file I created on my modern Mac that, when double-clicked in System 7, auto-opens QT Player and plays perfectly! Player Pro opens that WAV file but says it wants to change the TYPE and CREATOR, which I allow, but it then won't play. So there's no way for me to confirm any of the visualizations it apparently has.
How are audio files to be formatted such that Player Pro 4.5 can actually play them?
JDW
Well-known member
I've searched all the menus but cannot find the word "sampler" anywhere.
The File menu only offers "Open" as a means of getting sounds into the app. There is no "import" command. So when I "Open" my WAV file, the file is then placed in the "Music List" window. But when I try to play, it won't. Screenshots...
Even if I do eventually get some kind of sound file to actually play, where is the "visualizer"?
Bolle
Well-known member
I think the „sampler“ is the instrument list.
You should be able to load an audio file as an instrument there.
Edit: just fired up my SE/30 and checked, that’s indeed how you do it.
Load an audio file into the instrument list.
The oscilloscope and spectrum view will not work in black and white mode but they do work in grayscale mode.
So it won’t do what you need on a stock machine in the end anyways. :/
You should be able to load an audio file as an instrument there.
Edit: just fired up my SE/30 and checked, that’s indeed how you do it.
Load an audio file into the instrument list.
The oscilloscope and spectrum view will not work in black and white mode but they do work in grayscale mode.
So it won’t do what you need on a stock machine in the end anyways. :/
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JDW
Well-known member
I have my WAV file sitting on the Desktop, but when I try to open it as an instrument, the WAV file is no where to be found!
When I try to open a new WAV file for the first time in Music List, it doesn't show up there either UNTIL I checkmark Show All Files:
And when I click Open, it asks me if it can change Type and Creator:
That gets the file into the Music List only though.
So clearly, I need to know what is required to make files show up in the Instrument's Open dialog. Any thoughts?
mdeverhart
Well-known member
Maybe convert to AIFF? I don’t know about that program, but my recollection was that WAV support was pretty spotty on the Mac back in the day.
Actually, it looks the the Instrument Open dialog box is telling you what formats it supports at the bottom of the dialog. MIDI is the only one of those I’m familiar with, but my guess is you’ll need to convert to one of those.
Actually, it looks the the Instrument Open dialog box is telling you what formats it supports at the bottom of the dialog. MIDI is the only one of those I’m familiar with, but my guess is you’ll need to convert to one of those.
Kaa
Active member
You can't use .wav files. That's a PC native sound format that early Mac programs didn't understand. You need to use either .aiff or .snd files, and that is going to depend on the program as well.
Also, PlayerPro is a .mod player as Bolle pointed out. It's not so much an audio editor as much as it's a Music player for creating embedded songs.
While I have seen .mod players do what you are trying to do, I haven't seen any straight audio player do it. .Mod player are a bit limited on the Mac platform as well, being MUCH more prevalent on the Amiga platform.
Edit: Actually most of the Amiga programs are Trackers, while the Mac platform tends to have Mod players which are a bit more limited....
Also, PlayerPro is a .mod player as Bolle pointed out. It's not so much an audio editor as much as it's a Music player for creating embedded songs.
While I have seen .mod players do what you are trying to do, I haven't seen any straight audio player do it. .Mod player are a bit limited on the Mac platform as well, being MUCH more prevalent on the Amiga platform.
Edit: Actually most of the Amiga programs are Trackers, while the Mac platform tends to have Mod players which are a bit more limited....
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mdeverhart
Well-known member
Ahh, I’m going to need to hand in my “Vintage Mac Nerd” card, I totally forgot about SND files!
<hangs head in shame> :I
<hangs head in shame> :I
Kaa
Active member
No, it's not. It's not an audio editor, it is an audio sequencer. Essentially each instrument is a "sampler" that you load a typically SHORT sample into and then you can Play that sample like an instrument, or you can trigger it. With a tracker it's more akin to programming your samples and "sampler" and that creates your sequence.
I also don't know what the audio limitations on ProTracker are. I have yet to use Trackers, as the Mac versions don't do MIDI to my knowledge.
You may be able to do what you want in ProTracker, but it is not going to be as easy as loading an aiff, and playing it thru a plug-in to get your desired effect.
I also don't know what the audio limitations on ProTracker are. I have yet to use Trackers, as the Mac versions don't do MIDI to my knowledge.
You may be able to do what you want in ProTracker, but it is not going to be as easy as loading an aiff, and playing it thru a plug-in to get your desired effect.
