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Apple IIe
- Thread starter pintodave
- Start date
jsarchibald
Well-known member
As long as it is operational and in nice condition, it seems like a good deal. I was able to sell broken ones (ie. PSU needed re-capping) for $100 each, or working for $200+.
Hopefully it is one of the earlier ones, before the Enhanced and Platinum.
Hopefully it is one of the earlier ones, before the Enhanced and Platinum.
I'm sure it depends critically on where you are. $50 for just a system unit honesty sounds a little steep to me unless it's in gonzo good shape. Does it have any interface cards in it? Remember, a IIe doesn't have a disk controller, serial port, nuttin', without adding cards.
It does have expansion cards installed, looks like two floppy controllers and a serial or printer card. It isn't a platinum, I don't think, color doesn't seem right to be a platinum, even with the slight yellowing that appears in the pictures, and it does not have the keypad to the right either.
I know it is a holiday weekend and all but I'm getting anxious for a response from him!
I know it is a holiday weekend and all but I'm getting anxious for a response from him!
I went and picked it up last night, they guy had won it at an auction in hopes of playing around with it, but he said he had no idea how to use it or test it, and had nothing else but the power cord and a serial cord for it. He was going to ebay it but couldn't find a box big enough to ship it in.
After cleaning off some light dirt, it actually is in great condition aside from some scuffing in the center right in front of the keyboard at the edge, the "//e" part of the badge has some damage, and some light scratches here and there, but other than that it appears to be well cared for aside from three of the four rubber feet missing. It has a Rev. B board, a Super Serial Card, an I/O card, and a Disk Drive Controller card. Also has an 80 column card installed.
With the I/O card installed, it starts but does not display a prompt/cursor. Removing the card and it starts up just fine! The PROM chip on the card has some tarnished pins, but after cleaning them up it still refuses to boot properly with the card installed.
The date sticker on the power supply is 8629, and the keyboard and logic board dates seem to match up. Not sure about how to match up ROM chips to this, to see how original this is, but I will post pictures which might give some leads.
After cleaning off some light dirt, it actually is in great condition aside from some scuffing in the center right in front of the keyboard at the edge, the "//e" part of the badge has some damage, and some light scratches here and there, but other than that it appears to be well cared for aside from three of the four rubber feet missing. It has a Rev. B board, a Super Serial Card, an I/O card, and a Disk Drive Controller card. Also has an 80 column card installed.
With the I/O card installed, it starts but does not display a prompt/cursor. Removing the card and it starts up just fine! The PROM chip on the card has some tarnished pins, but after cleaning them up it still refuses to boot properly with the card installed.
The date sticker on the power supply is 8629, and the keyboard and logic board dates seem to match up. Not sure about how to match up ROM chips to this, to see how original this is, but I will post pictures which might give some leads.
Quadraman
Well-known member
$50 is fair for a IIe and even for a IIc. They are both pretty common machines. Anyone who asks much more than that is banking on the Applemania that swept the hobby after Steve Jobs died to make a killing on common as dirt hardware from people who don't know any better.
Thank you Quadraman, that gives me some peace of mind with my decision to go through with the deal! 
Here are some pictures of it!
First the unit after I cleaned it up. It didn't need much, just a good wipe down with some light detergent. (yes, the backslash under the delete key is on sideways here):
I pulled off every key and wiped them down real good, then took a q-tip and went through and cleaned out/dusted off the keyboard assembly.
This is the worst of the damage, the scuffing at the edge in front of the keyboard. I had to adjust the photo in photoshop to get the lighting right to show it, the pictures were taken with the phone camera.
And here is the damage to the case badge. Not horrible, but it is noticeable when looking at it:
I'm assuming this is pretty typical, of a neglected //e, to have this much dust and dirt inside the unit:
I gave the logic board a bath of water with a toothbrush scrub and rinse with 91% IPA, it cleaned up real good!
This I/O card is the one that prevents the //e from booting. When installed, it just hangs, displaying "Apple //e" and goes no further. What sucks, is this is the card I need, to use my external 5.25" drive (from what I have researched). The 3.5" Disk Drive Controller Card does not affect it's operation though, but I don't have a 3.5" drive!
The Apple IC with the white sticker on it has tarnished or heat damaged pins. I cleaned them up but it didn't change anything. I might be on the hunt for a new card soon if changing the socket for that IC doesn't fix it.
And the //e booted and connected to a display for the first time in a long time!
So, any ideas on the I/O card issue?
Here are some pictures of it!
First the unit after I cleaned it up. It didn't need much, just a good wipe down with some light detergent. (yes, the backslash under the delete key is on sideways here):
I pulled off every key and wiped them down real good, then took a q-tip and went through and cleaned out/dusted off the keyboard assembly.
This is the worst of the damage, the scuffing at the edge in front of the keyboard. I had to adjust the photo in photoshop to get the lighting right to show it, the pictures were taken with the phone camera.
And here is the damage to the case badge. Not horrible, but it is noticeable when looking at it:
I'm assuming this is pretty typical, of a neglected //e, to have this much dust and dirt inside the unit:
I gave the logic board a bath of water with a toothbrush scrub and rinse with 91% IPA, it cleaned up real good!
This I/O card is the one that prevents the //e from booting. When installed, it just hangs, displaying "Apple //e" and goes no further. What sucks, is this is the card I need, to use my external 5.25" drive (from what I have researched). The 3.5" Disk Drive Controller Card does not affect it's operation though, but I don't have a 3.5" drive!
The Apple IC with the white sticker on it has tarnished or heat damaged pins. I cleaned them up but it didn't change anything. I might be on the hunt for a new card soon if changing the socket for that IC doesn't fix it.
And the //e booted and connected to a display for the first time in a long time!
So, any ideas on the I/O card issue?
Elfen
Well-known member
The only person who can fully answer that outside of The Woz was my old friend Dr. Levinson, who died in '09. So unfortunate, he was a wealth of Apple II Info. So I'll need to activate some very old memory neurons here...
The chip with the White Sticker is a 512B to 1KB Flash PROM (P6), 4bits wide and the other 4 bits (for 8 bits to be used by the 6502) is on the other PROM (P4). They are sensitive to static, voltage spikes, shorts and anything that would suddenly rise the volts/amps inside the Apple and can be accidently erased. This card is the 5.25 drive card and not a 3.5, and I as wondering why is there 2 drive cards in it. If they put a 3.5 drive to that, it would have killed the card.
This is known - the 5.25 and 3.5 are virtually the same except for bigger PROMs on the board to figure out 3.5 geometry. There is an extra voltage line coming from the card to handle the little motor for Disk Ejection which is grounded on the 5.25 drive. This is why plugging in 5.25 to it would kill the card and the drive and why plugging a 3.5 into a 5.25 card would kill the card.
Incidentally, the IWM (Integrated Wozinak Machine) and the SWIM (Super Integrated Wozinak Machine) chips used in Macs are from these very same cards but with a different program in the PROM. So if you can imagine those cards on a chip, you get the IWM/SIWM.
Warning: This is also why you can not use a Apple IIGS 3.5 floppy on a Mac - both the wires and the drive board inside are different. Using it will blow out your IWM/SIWM Chip and/or the drive. You can recycle the mechanicals from a Apple IIGS 3.5 to fix a Mac 800K floppy (and visa versa) but not the electronics.
The chip with the White Sticker is a 512B to 1KB Flash PROM (P6), 4bits wide and the other 4 bits (for 8 bits to be used by the 6502) is on the other PROM (P4). They are sensitive to static, voltage spikes, shorts and anything that would suddenly rise the volts/amps inside the Apple and can be accidently erased. This card is the 5.25 drive card and not a 3.5, and I as wondering why is there 2 drive cards in it. If they put a 3.5 drive to that, it would have killed the card.
This is known - the 5.25 and 3.5 are virtually the same except for bigger PROMs on the board to figure out 3.5 geometry. There is an extra voltage line coming from the card to handle the little motor for Disk Ejection which is grounded on the 5.25 drive. This is why plugging in 5.25 to it would kill the card and the drive and why plugging a 3.5 into a 5.25 card would kill the card.
Incidentally, the IWM (Integrated Wozinak Machine) and the SWIM (Super Integrated Wozinak Machine) chips used in Macs are from these very same cards but with a different program in the PROM. So if you can imagine those cards on a chip, you get the IWM/SIWM.
Warning: This is also why you can not use a Apple IIGS 3.5 floppy on a Mac - both the wires and the drive board inside are different. Using it will blow out your IWM/SIWM Chip and/or the drive. You can recycle the mechanicals from a Apple IIGS 3.5 to fix a Mac 800K floppy (and visa versa) but not the electronics.
techknight
Well-known member
Hmm. I do recall using a 2gs drive with eject button on the side, on a mac without issue back in the day.
What are you talking about? The A9M0106 drive specifically intended for the IIgs is a "universal" drive and works with both Macs and Apple II's equipped with suitable controller cards, and that includes the controller built into the IIgs. I have one of these drives and use it with my 512k; it has the advantage over the Mac-styled M0131 800k external disk (sans eject button) in that it works fine as a 400k drive if you don't have the HD20 INIT installed on your boot floppy. (And therefore is itself bootable, unlike the M0131.)
Are you sure you're not thinking of the "Unidisk 3.5" drive, A2M2053, that was mostly sold for use with the original IIc? *That* has a magical control board inside the case that, yes, makes it incompatible with a Mac.
waynestewart
Well-known member
If the 5.25” controller doesn’t have a drive attached then your IIe will hang there forever without a prompt showing up.
I can’t really see the cards in the machine very well but the superdrive controller is longer than a disk II card so you must have a Liron card. The Liron cards only work with the 3.5” Unidisk which isn’t that common a drive.
I’ve used the IIgs 3.5” drive with the eject button on my Macs lots of times. I’ve seen schools with a whole room full of Macs with IIgs 3.5” drives that Apple sold them. Now I wouldn’t plug the 5.25” drive into any Mac.
I can’t really see the cards in the machine very well but the superdrive controller is longer than a disk II card so you must have a Liron card. The Liron cards only work with the 3.5” Unidisk which isn’t that common a drive.
I’ve used the IIgs 3.5” drive with the eject button on my Macs lots of times. I’ve seen schools with a whole room full of Macs with IIgs 3.5” drives that Apple sold them. Now I wouldn’t plug the 5.25” drive into any Mac.
Speaking of IIe's and disk controllers, I do have to relate the... amusing, sight, I witnessed last time I saw someone selling IIe's at the local Ham Radio flea market. The table was obviously being run by one of those guys that looks at the wishing-price Buy It Nows on eBay and assumes that's the actual market price; he had three or four quite badly beat up IIe's marked at something ridiculous like $75. I popped the cover on one and took a peek inside, and discovered that it had an original Disk II controller in it (the one that uses pin headers to connect the ribbon cables internally) with the stumps of two ribbon cables still attached; whoever had decommissioned/stolen/whatever the unit had either cut or *ripped* the disk drives off instead of opening the case and unplugging them. Suitably shocked and amused I popped the cover on another... and discovered the same thing.
"Go0d JorB!"
"Go0d JorB!"
Elfen
Well-known member
I'm not pointing fingers, Gorgonops, but cut ribbon cables like this said that its a stolen Apple from somewhere. It is quite sad to see this.
And $75 for a Apple II(anything) with cut cables, to me takes off 90% of the price. I usually tell them of about the cut cables and then about the cost of "fixing the problem" and then haunt him until closing hours and see if he would let it go at 90% off! Machines like this usually wont sell unless somebody is desperate to replace an Apple for one reason or another, and usually at a haggled price.
For that reason, I separated the all 3.5 with the ejection button as for Apple IIs and 3.5 with a button for Macs in my mind. Its a limiting mindset I know, but it kept me out of trouble.
BTW - back in the day, Dr. Levinson figured out how replace a burnt out PROM with a 2704 or 2708 EPROM. He had to divide the data bus of the eprom into 2- 4 bit buses and set them in what I called a Spider adapter of wires into each of the PROM socket and then pull the addresses from one of the socket. It actually worked! He figured this out from a Chinese Clone Disk Drive card having an EPROM and not PROMs. But then after he got a hold of a several dozens of blank PROMs and figured out how to program them and lets say "He was happy as a pig in shit!"
And $75 for a Apple II(anything) with cut cables, to me takes off 90% of the price. I usually tell them of about the cut cables and then about the cost of "fixing the problem" and then haunt him until closing hours and see if he would let it go at 90% off! Machines like this usually wont sell unless somebody is desperate to replace an Apple for one reason or another, and usually at a haggled price.
You might be right on the Unidisk. To me they all looked the same and seen a few of them smoke when plugged into the wrong machine. It can be fixed if the PROMs survived - its usually a couple of 74XXX chips and solder a wire to replace a burnt out trace. I've done those for Dr. Levinson back in the 1990s.
For that reason, I separated the all 3.5 with the ejection button as for Apple IIs and 3.5 with a button for Macs in my mind. Its a limiting mindset I know, but it kept me out of trouble.
BTW - back in the day, Dr. Levinson figured out how replace a burnt out PROM with a 2704 or 2708 EPROM. He had to divide the data bus of the eprom into 2- 4 bit buses and set them in what I called a Spider adapter of wires into each of the PROM socket and then pull the addresses from one of the socket. It actually worked! He figured this out from a Chinese Clone Disk Drive card having an EPROM and not PROMs. But then after he got a hold of a several dozens of blank PROMs and figured out how to program them and lets say "He was happy as a pig in shit!"
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The *one* "legit" reason I can imagine for cut cables would be if an old school were remodelled/demolished by workmen who didn't give a fig about equipment left behind in a lab and the systems were subsequently dumpster-dived but, yeah, it certainly wasn't a stamp of quality. I didn't bother with trying to negotiate anything because:
1: I've tried to talk to some of these eBay-pricers before and it's amazing how bullheaded they can be. Pretty much marked it up as a lost cause after a flabbergasting conversation with an idiot that was absolutely positive his pair of DuoDisk units that looked like they'd been chucked down a flight of stairs would *totally* sell for $200 on eBay-and-you-should-be-thrilled-I'm-only-asking-$40... each.
2: The ripped cables weren't the only thing wrong; they were *trashed*. (All but one had missing keys, and the one that didn't had a suspicious "bend" in the keyboard, etc.) Honestly they looked like they weren't so much dumpster-dived as fished out of the rubble of a controlled implosion.
Yay.
1: I've tried to talk to some of these eBay-pricers before and it's amazing how bullheaded they can be. Pretty much marked it up as a lost cause after a flabbergasting conversation with an idiot that was absolutely positive his pair of DuoDisk units that looked like they'd been chucked down a flight of stairs would *totally* sell for $200 on eBay-and-you-should-be-thrilled-I'm-only-asking-$40... each.
2: The ripped cables weren't the only thing wrong; they were *trashed*. (All but one had missing keys, and the one that didn't had a suspicious "bend" in the keyboard, etc.) Honestly they looked like they weren't so much dumpster-dived as fished out of the rubble of a controlled implosion.
Yay.
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This is the io card I have , for reference.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/peabodyisla/Apple_IIe/IMAG2466_BURST001_zps01d99f44.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m30/peabodyisla/Apple_IIe/IMAG2466_BURST001_zps01d99f44.jpg
So, from what I understand, the //e won't do anything at all with that card installed....UNLESS, I have a 5.25" drive connected and a "bootable" floppy inserted with the door closed? I have never owned any Apple II older than my IIc Plus, so an Apple with expansion capabilities is completely new to me.
