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32-bit d-day for macOS (OS X) apps (what to do about emulators)

pcamen

Well-known member
Anyone here running macOS Sierra or Mojave has gotten the warnings about 32-bit support going away in Catalina.  This spells doom for a lot of older software, especially emulators like Basilisk, Mini vMac, SheepShaver, and LisaEm.  This will also affect Wine, if anyone uses that.  Some of these haven't seen updates in some time.  Given that what is going away is support for Carbon developed applications, it seems unlikely that someone will rewrite these applications for Cocoa and bring them into the 64-bit era. 

Anyone thought about this?  Are there any known hacks for bringing 32-bit support back, like copying stuff off of a Mojave installation to a Catalina installation? 

Here is a tool for figuring out what 32-bit apps your currently have:

https://www.stclairsoft.com/Go64/

 

jessenator

Well-known member
Our office has sent at least 4 company-wide emails this last week instructing (warning) employees not to update to Catalina. Most likely because of this. Thanks for sharing.

We have a lot of 3rd party tools, etc. on our machines that probably won't work with that upgrade.

Is there any bearing on webapps? I mean, browsers have been 64-bit for a while, but just something I thought of.

 

pcamen

Well-known member
I haven't seen anything with regard to web apps.  I don't think it is an issue given that most everything in web apps are written in interpreted languages. 

The one thing I can think of though is that there are some java apps (like for video surveillance cameras) that require an older version of the Java run time engine.  I wonder if this is perhaps 32-bit. 

I was thinking I'd just be running an VMWare virtual machine with a Mojave installation for all my must have 32-bit stuff.  I wonder if the VMWare Unity mode or Parallels Coherence mode work better for making it seem like apps are running natively. 

 
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jessenator

Well-known member
I'm usually pretty fastidious about disabling auto-update, but it seems that Apple is extra sneaky… I could swear I didn't have macOS updates checked on here…had to uncheck it again.
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nglevin

Well-known member
Mini vMac is fine. It's not only had a fully functional 64 bit version for some time, the latest Cocoa version has been properly code signed to avoid those annoying nag screens when you don't select "File", "Open..." or right click then "Open..." the binary.

The biggest casualties are apps that were 32 bit, either because of heavy Carbon/Mac Toolbox dependencies, or ports made with some 32-bit third party framework (Wine, etc) that the developers didn't want to use the latest version of for a variety of Windows-facing reasons.

Fundamentally that means, indie games, old "Pro" (typically audio) apps or apps made by small developers that didn't want to do a Cocoa rewrite since Carbon worked fine for these past 19 years despite the heavy signaling that it was going away with the lack of a 64 bit Carbon for Mac OS X Leopard.

Most of that software worked better on Windows, or worked better on Windows through virtualization anyway, since Windows was always their primary platform. Rather than look into Mac OS X virtualization, it might be wiser to consider running these apps in a Windows instance on VMware or Parallels where you'll get some GPU virtualization and a few other nice goodies while Macs are still running on Intel.

Now if you want to disable the macOS Catalina nag screen slash advertising, there's a little Terminal sorcery that can do that. You can still download it from the App Store app later and it will still do the download in System Preferences when that happens.

 
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pcamen

Well-known member
Glad to hear Mini vMac is OK.  I didn't notice that further down in the report  I actually had a few instances of the newer Mini vMac listed that it shows as being 64-bit compliant. 

 

olePigeon

Well-known member
There are no hacks, the 32-bit toolbox is completely gone.  Since I still use Adobe CS6, I'm in a pickle.  I'm looking at running Mojave in a virtual machine and just do it that way.  It'll be annoying, but should work I think.

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
For emulators in particular, The Way Forward is going to be to modernize them. It sounds like a couple of them are already there, which is good. It might be worth checking on, say, E-Maculation, here: https://emaculation.com/doku.php to see what they're up to on this front. 

Is there any bearing on webapps
Nothing that's strictly browser-based, but anything that's, say, a really old version of an electron app might be a different story. Though: I don't actually know if electron is old enough to have ever been 32-bit exclusive.

Now if you want to disable the macOS Catalina nag screen slash advertising
Looking forward to seeing the Mojave nags on my 2011 MBP and mini magically turn into Catalina nags.

 

MOS8_030

Well-known member
There are no hacks, the 32-bit toolbox is completely gone.  Since I still use Adobe CS6, I'm in a pickle.  I'm looking at running Mojave in a virtual machine and just do it that way.  It'll be annoying, but should work I think.
Same here with CS6, and a couple of other apps.

I won't be updating from Mojave.

 

pcamen

Well-known member
Apparently at least some of CS6 will still work.  Photoshop and Illustrator are 64-bit. 

 

olePigeon

Well-known member
Those are the only two apps I use.  Illustrator, unfortunately, requires Java SE 6.  Oracle doesn't provide Java 6, only Apple does.  So far it won't install on Catalina.  However, I did some Googling and it may be possible to get Java 6 installed on Catalina.  So here's hoping.

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
Holding onto Mojave for a while is probably a fine idea. Conventional wisdom typically holds that you wait at least a couple weeks to upgrade to a new major OS release anyway if you use your machine "for work" - but Apple's support for by-gone releases of the OS is very short, just because they release a new version every year, and so that'll only really work as The Solution without doing anything else for like two years.

The other problem with CS6 stuff, such that any of it runs on 10.15, is that a lot of the connecting bits are 32-bit.

I've long been in the practice of keeping a handful of bootable external disks around with previous OS versions, as this is far from the first time Mac OS X has killed off compatibility for some tool or app I like and wanted to have access to, from time to time.

Long term, the solution to The Adobe Creative Cloud Problem is going to be to either stop using Adobe's tools (whether that means stop needing those kinds of tools or switching away to other commercial tools, or open source versions), buy a new Mac on which you do networked tasks and use 10.6 on a machine you keep un-networked, or to switch to Windows, where you can still run the NT 3.5 release of Cardfile.exe and Word 95.

(EDIT: I switched to Windows Vista in 2009 explicitly to get better CS3/4 performance and haven't looked back since, it runs everything I do better than Mac hardware does. The only hard-and-fast reasons to stick with a Mac for desktop-experience computing are Final Cut Pro and iOS/Mac app development.)

 
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pcamen

Well-known member
THIS is why I don't like SaaS.  Right now it's to comply with some new law, but I'm sure they can do this for any reason.  Give me some physical media and a serial number, and I'll decide when I want to upgrade, thank you very much.
And the fact that companies like Adobe brag to investors about how much more money they are making from the annual license model.  If it was near highway robbery before, it must be out-and-out smash and grab now. 

I've long been in the practice of keeping a handful of bootable external disks around with previous OS versions, as this is far from the first time Mac OS X has killed off compatibility for some tool or app I like and wanted to have access to, from time to time.
You know, I've switched bootable volumes many a time with vintage Macs, but never considered that an option for newer ones.  I didn't realize they still easily supported that.  I like it.  I'll clone my current Mojave setup and keep it as a bootable external drive when I get a new Macbook Pro.  I'm longing for more memory and more cores, as I seem to hit the limit on my current one often. 

I wonder if it is possible to get VMWare or Parallels to run off a physical volume such that there is the option to either boot to it or run it as a virtual machine.  I seem to recall that Bootcamp worked that way, but I never wanted to hive out a large chunk of my disk for that. 

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
Yeah, Intel Macs added the ability to easily boot off of USB. SD cards are so cheap and good now, I also for a while kept a 32-gig utility SD card around for my Mac mini.

I also had a 750-gig USB external disk that booted the then-current OS X release with a bunch of other OS X installers and some OS X utility software and app installers on it, and lent that disk to friends on a handful of occasions for recovery/rebuild purposes.

THIS is why I don't like SaaS. 
The interesting thing here is, Adobe pretty much stands out in actually doing all the things everyone spent all their time predicting Microsoft would be doing, when Office 365 was announced in June 2011, a couple months ahead of the announcement of Creative Cloud, in October 2011.

And yet, as far as I can tell, Microsoft's behavior on this front is largely exemplary, or at the very least, a lot less abusive than Adobe's. For example:

  • No price increases
  • Several different price tiers


    Home/Multiuser, Personal/1user/machine, Student 1user/2computer/4year

[*]Increase of "Home" license from 5 to 6 machines

[*]Full terabyte of storage (Adobe increased to a terabyte only in the last year or so, it was 100gb for the longest time)

[*]Each member of "home" license gets their own full terabyte of storage

[*]Functional web-based apps for using the software elsewhere

[*]continues to sell perpetually licensed Office [year] products, up through Office 2019 Mac/PC.

[*](Mostly, except for Access) File formats haven't changed since 2007, meaning you can open your documents on older versions of Office

[*]Deactivated Office software opens files read-only to access information, you can install Office from the Internet and use it this way without signing in (I'm about 95% sure on this.)

[*]Adds new functionality on a regular basis, and as a whole the service does a lot of good to tie together bits of Microsoft's consumer ecosystem.


I'm fully aware that Microsoft could do all this stuff, but, it's been several years and they still haven't. (There was that time they decided to just end quotas altogether, but the datahoarder people went utterly wild and so Microsoft had to reel that back a lot and so we'll see how long it takes to be able to buy more gigs on a single OneDrive account, which is admittedly the most annoying aspect of "you can get 6TB of storage with OneDrive!" - no, you can get six users worth of storage on OneDrive, you don't really get to choose how it's allocated among those six.

Honestly, Office 365 is a pretty good deal for the storage alone. It's priced comparably to what iCloud and Dropbox charge for that amount of storage, and those services don't also give you Microsoft Office, or in the case of Dropbox, an ad-free inbox.

Ultimately, I suspect that the real way out of the future software vendors have arguably wanted since the 1980s where you rent your computer, is to exit the commercial software space entirely. There's nothing saying Apple won't start tying iWork functionality to an iCloud subscription or renting Final Cut Pro and Logic for $20 a month, and that Quark won't go back on everything it's doing to try to get people back to XPress, once it has enough users and feels like they're sufficiently locked in again.

 
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