I might be receiving a duo but I have no dock to do file transfers. any ideas
-
Hello MLAers! We've re-enabled auto-approval for accounts. If you are still waiting on account approval, please check this thread for more information.
PowerBook duo file transfer
- Thread starter Challenger 1983
- Start date
Both of my duos have serial ports-they're located under one of the flip down legs. The easiest way to transfer files is via Appletalk-you just need a serial cable and to hook it up to another Mac.
Okay so I found a 280c are they rare?
If the Duo has a terminal app like ZTerm on it and an internal modem, and you have another computer with a mode, you can use these instructions:
https://support.apple.com/kb/TA21796?locale=en_US
I've used it with my Duo 230. I might have had to change the bit rate to work with the Duo; its been a while. However, its very slow. I'd recommend finding a dock for it.
https://support.apple.com/kb/TA21796?locale=en_US
I've used it with my Duo 230. I might have had to change the bit rate to work with the Duo; its been a while. However, its very slow. I'd recommend finding a dock for it.
No need to do any fiddling with a terminal if you have another Mac. Attach a printer cable to each Mac's serial port and set up AppleTalk over LocalTalk. Should Just Work.
Agreed. And, again, you don't need any kind of dock to do it as Duos do have a built in serial port.
Yep, just to clarify, make sure it's a printer cable and not a standard serial port cable. Printer cables are wired as Null MoDem, Serial cables are wired straight thru.
Out of curiosity in this ubiquitous network world, how many younger folks were even aware of the difference and the importance it played in the early days, before ubiquitous computing?
edit: get yourself a Dock and try setting the Duo up to act as a general purpose boot drive for testing HDD deprived acquisitions or for future sessions when transferring files and installing software across your collection. You can do it with most any PB from the second generation on, but using a 68030 Duo or PowerBook 100 is way cooler!
Out of curiosity in this ubiquitous network world, how many younger folks were even aware of the difference and the importance it played in the early days, before ubiquitous computing?
edit: get yourself a Dock and try setting the Duo up to act as a general purpose boot drive for testing HDD deprived acquisitions or for future sessions when transferring files and installing software across your collection. You can do it with most any PB from the second generation on, but using a 68030 Duo or PowerBook 100 is way cooler!
Last edited by a moderator:
Moved to PowerBook forum.
Using a duo as a Target Disk mode boot device seems insanely inefficient and perhaps like a pretty(1) bad use of the hardware. You can get regular dedicated external hard disks for that task.
As mentioned, get the appropriate cable (sometimes referred to as system/8 peripheral cable) or hook it up to a localtalk network segment and use that to transfer files.
This capability always seemed like the one saving grace of even bothering to get a duo in a world where duodocking might not make sense to, say, someone who already has an 840 or a power mac sitting around. Especially since you're unlikely to get a lot of off-tether time on a duo. It's very neat, but the meta is different than it was in 1993.
(1) I admit that I have no Duo and can't imagine setting, say, my 180 or 1400 aside and basically saying "this is an external hard disk now!" It's a whole computer and it seems like it would be best used as one.
Using a duo as a Target Disk mode boot device seems insanely inefficient and perhaps like a pretty(1) bad use of the hardware. You can get regular dedicated external hard disks for that task.
As mentioned, get the appropriate cable (sometimes referred to as system/8 peripheral cable) or hook it up to a localtalk network segment and use that to transfer files.
This capability always seemed like the one saving grace of even bothering to get a duo in a world where duodocking might not make sense to, say, someone who already has an 840 or a power mac sitting around. Especially since you're unlikely to get a lot of off-tether time on a duo. It's very neat, but the meta is different than it was in 1993.
(1) I admit that I have no Duo and can't imagine setting, say, my 180 or 1400 aside and basically saying "this is an external hard disk now!" It's a whole computer and it seems like it would be best used as one.
Maybe in your opinion. You've entirely misinterpreted what I said. And like you said, you've no experience to base your remarks upon. You're networkcentric in your thinking, having grown up in an era of ubiquitous networking that's understandable, if not inevitable.
SCSI Disk Mode is the proper 68K correct nomenclature, Target Disk Mode came into use much later. Have you even looked at the price of any external HDD enclosure on eBay lately? A set of cables and a passthru terminator for setting up a PowerBook in SCSI Disk mode pale in comparison to any external SCSI device available and they're generally useful items.
Never even hinted at the notion of setting one aside, I said it was an added feature for actually making use your Classic PowerBook and makes a great addition to any RetroMac kit.
edit: the 1400 is too new for the task, 180 is a good suggestion. A PowerBook 100 running 6.0.8L would be great to give a try for booting Compacts into System 6.
Last edited by a moderator:
It still seems wasteful, and even in the context of "the way computers worked in the era" which was how I did things when I first started working with old Macs.
The point of the Duo was not to avoid networking or to use it as a target disk, it was that the Duo was going to be an individual's only computer.
The PowerBook 100 was of course a different beast, but this thread is about Duos, not 100s. And, the point of Disk Mode on the 100 (and also in general on newer Macs that support it) was to make multi-Mac workflows easier by using the 100 as an external data drive to transfer files. Not as a boot device.
It's a clever idea, but to be honest, for somebody who is going to own any number of old Macs, the $40-120 on an external disk (or an externally-configured SCSI2SD) as a generic boot+installers+recovery drive makes sense as an investment.
Another concern is that due to low disk space, even in 14/120 config on my 180, there's just not enough room for me to consider leaving a generic enough setup to boot other Macs. I use that machine to do things, and the disk space taken by those things (data and applications I want to use on it) mean that there's not a whole lot of extra space for installers and to consider using it as a recovery option.
If a proper external hard disk is too spendy to recommend, even though it could be an invaluable tool, consider Zip or something like Syquest EZ135, Jaz, Orb, Bernoulli, or MO instead of a hard disk.
If going for period-correctness is at all important, it's a good idea to remember that in the period, almost nobody would have kept a system folder suitable for booting both their laptop and their desktop on the laptop. The disk space on the laptop -- especially laptops that don't have built-in diskette drives, such as 100s and duos, is simply too valuable.
The point of the Duo was not to avoid networking or to use it as a target disk, it was that the Duo was going to be an individual's only computer.
The PowerBook 100 was of course a different beast, but this thread is about Duos, not 100s. And, the point of Disk Mode on the 100 (and also in general on newer Macs that support it) was to make multi-Mac workflows easier by using the 100 as an external data drive to transfer files. Not as a boot device.
It's a clever idea, but to be honest, for somebody who is going to own any number of old Macs, the $40-120 on an external disk (or an externally-configured SCSI2SD) as a generic boot+installers+recovery drive makes sense as an investment.
Another concern is that due to low disk space, even in 14/120 config on my 180, there's just not enough room for me to consider leaving a generic enough setup to boot other Macs. I use that machine to do things, and the disk space taken by those things (data and applications I want to use on it) mean that there's not a whole lot of extra space for installers and to consider using it as a recovery option.
If a proper external hard disk is too spendy to recommend, even though it could be an invaluable tool, consider Zip or something like Syquest EZ135, Jaz, Orb, Bernoulli, or MO instead of a hard disk.
If going for period-correctness is at all important, it's a good idea to remember that in the period, almost nobody would have kept a system folder suitable for booting both their laptop and their desktop on the laptop. The disk space on the laptop -- especially laptops that don't have built-in diskette drives, such as 100s and duos, is simply too valuable.
Where the heck did we even talk about using it as a boot device? Cory seems to be the only one rambling on about that.
The original question was how to get files on the computer.
I hate to say this, but a certain admin on this site has almost turned me against posting here...especially since that admin seems to be pretty much anti-Mac everything that I've run across.
The original question was how to get files on the computer.
I hate to say this, but a certain admin on this site has almost turned me against posting here...especially since that admin seems to be pretty much anti-Mac everything that I've run across.
I feel I should clarify. I think it's a fine and very clever idea. It could be a great way for somebody who is strapped for equipment to test out that next acquisition. I don't think it's something anybody should specifically plan to do, because that's not the way the machines were intended or used nor have I run across any media from the era (old macworlds, or books similar to the Mac Bible with general Mac advice) suggesting this.
SCSI/Target Disk Mode is a great way to transfer working data from one Mac to another, but I don't even think there's a compelling "modern Mac hobbyist" reason for someone who is intentionally collecting several machines to do this. It's nice to have the bits, but it would be better to set up a 7.5 Network Access Disk floppy diskette to boot a Mac and connect to a Network (localtalk was common by the mid '90s) or build/use a cd-rom, an external hard disk, a zip disk, or something of that nature.
Big removable media are great because you can pick from any number of media optimized to boot and install certain OSes for certain hardware.
Going back to the duo file transfer issue -- getting a localtalk cable is the cheapest way to transfer files and a great (and cheap) investment for any user of 68k/oldworld-ppc vintage Macs.
SCSI/Target Disk Mode is a great way to transfer working data from one Mac to another, but I don't even think there's a compelling "modern Mac hobbyist" reason for someone who is intentionally collecting several machines to do this. It's nice to have the bits, but it would be better to set up a 7.5 Network Access Disk floppy diskette to boot a Mac and connect to a Network (localtalk was common by the mid '90s) or build/use a cd-rom, an external hard disk, a zip disk, or something of that nature.
Big removable media are great because you can pick from any number of media optimized to boot and install certain OSes for certain hardware.
Going back to the duo file transfer issue -- getting a localtalk cable is the cheapest way to transfer files and a great (and cheap) investment for any user of 68k/oldworld-ppc vintage Macs.
NoPro, not good with the written comms thing: Set it up with a universal install of x.x.x so you can also . . .
Given the size and redundancy of many collections, setting a PB up as a dedicated SCSI Disk Mode HDD ain't such a bad idea at all. If nothing else, it's an arguable reason (excuse) for adding another "small one" to save money and space in lieu of acquiring that much needed external HDD for a collection that's SAF inhibited.
edit: I see you've beaten me to the post. Nope, it was never recommended anywhere I recall either Such was a "hack" used by at least one to collect fonts and "Demo" software before plunking down hard earned greenbacks for yet another turkey.rev. that should have been labeled "Beta Test Distribution" back in the day.
Me loved me some BabyPB back when no other PowerBook had the capability to do what I was doing with my PowerBook 100.
Given the size and redundancy of many collections, setting a PB up as a dedicated SCSI Disk Mode HDD ain't such a bad idea at all. If nothing else, it's an arguable reason (excuse) for adding another "small one" to save money and space in lieu of acquiring that much needed external HDD for a collection that's SAF inhibited.
edit: I see you've beaten me to the post. Nope, it was never recommended anywhere I recall either Such was a "hack" used by at least one to collect fonts and "Demo" software before plunking down hard earned greenbacks for yet another turkey.rev. that should have been labeled "Beta Test Distribution" back in the day.
Me loved me some BabyPB back when no other PowerBook had the capability to do what I was doing with my PowerBook 100.
Last edited by a moderator:
SCSI stuff is not quite as easy to get your hands on as it was a few years ago. It's still possible, and it's absolutely worth learning a bit about SCSI and the attendant voodoo, you'd probably need to learn it even if you were going to use a PowerBook for the task.
I can't personally say enough good about the SyQuest EZ-135 drive. I have three cartridges for it and I want to get more. It works well with everything from my 180 up to my beige G3, as well as with my Sun Voyager running OpenSTEP. 135 megabytes should be enough to build a basic system install for anything from system 7 on up to 9.2.1/9.2.2.
Zip 100 should be the same, but it's that much more ubiquitous. There's information here on how to boot Pluses from it, and of course many more modern Macs came with Zip 100/250 built in (or available as an add-on, esp. in the case of 750.)
The bummer about Duos specifically is that serial is just about the only port they even have on them, so my endorsement for removable media doesn't mean a whole lot without a dock.
Ultimately, long term for a duo, especially if you plan on having more than one of them, you'll want either a few carefully selected MicroDocks, a Mini-dock, or one of the proper big docking stations. It's just how the machines were meant to be used, and there's no other practical way to install an OS on them. Once your OS is loaded though, day to day file transfers will be fine with localtalk.
I can't personally say enough good about the SyQuest EZ-135 drive. I have three cartridges for it and I want to get more. It works well with everything from my 180 up to my beige G3, as well as with my Sun Voyager running OpenSTEP. 135 megabytes should be enough to build a basic system install for anything from system 7 on up to 9.2.1/9.2.2.
Zip 100 should be the same, but it's that much more ubiquitous. There's information here on how to boot Pluses from it, and of course many more modern Macs came with Zip 100/250 built in (or available as an add-on, esp. in the case of 750.)
The bummer about Duos specifically is that serial is just about the only port they even have on them, so my endorsement for removable media doesn't mean a whole lot without a dock.
Ultimately, long term for a duo, especially if you plan on having more than one of them, you'll want either a few carefully selected MicroDocks, a Mini-dock, or one of the proper big docking stations. It's just how the machines were meant to be used, and there's no other practical way to install an OS on them. Once your OS is loaded though, day to day file transfers will be fine with localtalk.
Agreed wholeheartedly, Duos definitely need dockage. It's probably most useful to try to score a MiniDock before they all disappear. It has everything but ethernet, so the prices are far more reasonable than the eDocks and provides for extended desktop on a monitor/LCD up to 16" resolution, IIRC.
A full Dock is wonderful to have, but if you're not into collecting treasures NuBus, the standard MiniDock is almost everything you could ask for.
A full Dock is wonderful to have, but if you're not into collecting treasures NuBus, the standard MiniDock is almost everything you could ask for.
i have a newton serial cable will that work
