1400c 166 slow CF?

[MacUp72]

I noticed that my 1400c/166 works well, also has max 64MB RAM but it boots quite slowly, only have used some noName 'high speed' 16GB from eBay with my IDE-CF adapter..what CF cards do you use in your 1400s?
I know that the IDE implementation on it is rudimentary but maybe it makes a difference using an IDE-SD adapter and mini SD card..

 

[Phipli]

I noticed that my 1400c/166 works well, also has max 64MB RAM but it boots quite slowly, only have used some noName 'high speed' 16GB from eBay with my IDE-CF adapter..what CF cards do you use in your 1400s?
I know that the IDE implementation on it is rudimentary but maybe it makes a difference using an IDE-SD adapter and mini SD card..

View attachment 58095 View attachment 58096

Run a disk speed test on it, Norton System Info will do one, or others.

What OS? It might just be... slow IDE.

 

[CircuitBored]

The IDE on the 1400 is sadly just really slow, as is the boot process before the OS actually starts loading. Those two factors combined make for a very slow boot to desktop. With a G3 upgrade it gets even slower...

 

[Byrd]

Keep to the CF only adapters, I’ve never had much luck with the IDE to SD adapters. CF performance can differ in many Macs, some operations are faster than mechanical HDs while other operations are slower.

For consistent performance go for the best quality non no-name CF card you can find, eg Sandisk Extreme. I’ve picked up some used cards really cheaply in 8-32GB sizes, they appeared to come from ex- camera users and I’m yet to find one that seems worn.

 

[MacUp72]

I have a good, silent 40GB Fujitsu hdd ( 2007) and it takes exactly as long to boot as the CF card..one minute before extensions load, then another 30/40sec, so 2 minutes..Did some benchmarks with MacBench 5 but strangely it didnt record any HDD performance, lol.
there was a reason why I reinstalled the hdd some months ago..

The IDE on the 1400 is sadly just really slow, as is the boot process before the OS actually starts loading. Those two factors combined make for a very slow boot to desktop. With a G3 upgrade it gets even slower...

..and there was a reason why I sold my first 1400c which had a Newertech G3 233Mhz upgrade card in it..

 

[Phipli]

I'm just going to contradict the SD card adapter comment. It depends on the adapter and on the Mac.

Terrible luck with the 3.5" replacement ones, but my PB1400, PB5300 and two Pismos all have the same IDE to SD card adapter and they work great. Faster than the stock disks and perfectly reliable.

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Just have to make sure they don’t short on anything.

 

[Snial]

Have you checked if the boot partition driver is 68K or PPC? My original PowerBook 1400 had a 68K boot partition driver, but after upgrading to Mac OS 8.1 it was upgraded to the PPC version.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Keep to the CF only adapters, I’ve never had much luck with the IDE to SD adapters.

Also going to refute this, at least on PowerBooks. Have one running with a huge 64GB card in my 3400c without as much as a single issue for a year now just about. And before I put it in my 3400, I used my 1400 to test it out and it worked great there too. They're faster and way cheaper than buying a high capacity CF card.

 

[LaPorta]

I'll add that my IDE to SD adapter also works very, very well with my 1400. Not a single issue, and it runs pretty darn speedy. Also with a Newer Tech G3 processor...

 

[Byrd]

OK Sorry to confuse, maybe I better try my IDE to SD adapters in PowerBooks - didn't have good luck using the adapter in some later Desktop Macs.

 

[greystash]

I have stuck to using CF and have found they perform at almost the same speed as an internal HDD. When testing I found that a fast internal HDD performed better overall (except for seeking data in some cases) but I have stuck to the CF due to reliability and noise. I've used the same adapter as @Phipli and they work well, but I'm currently using this. Dual CF cards aren't supported but it works and performs just as well as a HDD

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

I think I’ll benchmark tomorrow.
1400c/166 disk speeds - CF Card
3400c/240 disk speeds - SD card.
See how big the difference actually is.

 

[MacUp72]

Have you checked if the boot partition driver is 68K or PPC? My original PowerBook 1400 had a 68K boot partition driver, but after upgrading to Mac OS 8.1 it was upgraded to the PPC version.

well, when I do a fresh install from CD ( eg 9.1) I always used the onboard Apple HD setup tool before installing which put its newest drivers on the root, never had a prob there.

I'm just going to contradict the SD card adapter comment. It depends on the adapter and on the Mac.

Terrible luck with the 3.5" replacement ones, but my PB1400, PB5300 and two Pismos all have the same IDE to SD card adapter and they work great. Faster than the stock disks and perfectly reliable.

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Just have to make sure they don’t short on anything.

thats actually a good base for comparison when you have the same ide-sd adapter in all three machines.
(the Pismo of course is able to use IDE-mSata but I guess its not really a read/write speed difference between the two adapters)
now a main decision point for many is price here ( sd vs CF).
and to make clear, I never had a prob with my CF card here, still a good, IDE pin compatible solution.
is it was it is..from my understanding a 1400 still is based on a Power Macintosh 6200 architecture PCI-wise..its not a Pismo.


greystash, Dual CF cards aren't supported..

I stumbled over a variant of the IDE-CF adapter, a 2,5"dual CF version, which has space for a CF card on top and on the bottom..
wonder if Apple HD tool is recognizing correctly two physically, independent harddiscs, so that erasing/handling partitions is
easier than on a single CF card..so this wont work?

 

[Dude.JediKnight]

I always remember hearing that CF to IDE adapters were generally better as CF is pin compatible to IDE. SD to IDE needs a chip that has to translate, so higher overhead.

I know there are a lot of other factors, but those are the general guidelines as I understand them. Also depends on the specific adapter, and the card you choose as well. Even certain machines can have certain quirks that cause problems regardless of what adapter and card you use.

Not directly related to this discussion, but I have a 3.5” CF to IDE adapter that I bought at the swap meet that I think will end up in one of my old IDE Macs, I’ll make sure to document the exact adapter I used and the exact CF card I plan to use.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

I’ve always heard that the translation aspect caused the cost of SD adapters to be higher - not that they caused a performance hit. Nowadays though the costs have come down to the same level as CF cards so that isn’t an issue anymore. Or so I’ve heard.

 

[Phipli]

I always remember hearing that CF to IDE adapters were generally better as CF is pin compatible to IDE. SD to IDE needs a chip that has to translate, so higher overhead

The overhead is on the adapter not the computer, the computer is blind to it.

I'm confused by the resistance... I'm saying this setup works well. It isn't hypothetical : I run this setup.

These adapters are fast. In my Pismo they run /way/ faster than stock disks. I have benchmark data somewhere... will try to find it.

Edit : nope, looks like the PMs are gone, possibly lost in the server crash. Or I can't find the.

 

[MacUp72]

back in 2012 it was a thing to choose the right IDE-mSata adapter with the compatible Marvel 88SA8052 chip for PB G4..
I had two different ones , one with and one without the 88SA8052 and it was a difference..but thats no the topic here..

 

[ArmorAlley]

If it fits into a PB1400, a 32GB 2½" IDE SSD might be another option, assuming the ATA-level isn't a problem.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Those dedicated IDE SSDs have always been really overpriced to me compared to other options.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Did some benchmarks with macbench 5.

Current System = 1400c/117 with stock 1GB HDD
1400c/166 disk test = 1400c/166, CF to IDE
3400c SD Card = 3400c/240, SD to IDE
is the IDE bus on the 3400 known to be better than the 1400? I’d assume so, but I’m not tearing down my 3400c just to test the SD adapter in the 1400.