"Cheap Networking" for System 6 and 7 Macs

[Paralel]

I agree Jonny scsi appears the best all around option and probably one ofthe fastest too. Surely theres some expertise on here that could design a scsi board?

I don't think it's a lack of talent around here. I think the problem is 1) It has already been done well 2) The results of the aforementioned engineering are still available for purchase, even though though they are secondhand products with some years on them at this point.

Those two things together make it an uninteresting venture for most here, I would think.

 

[Johnnya101]

Yes, you are correct, however how many do you ever see for sale? I don't see any on eBay at the moment or on here for sale... So there is definitely a market. The originals are very hard to find.

 

[SE30_Neal]

You think so.  I think the problem Potato was looking at was because these network cards or adaptors have now become silly expensive like most of these mac cards, I’ve been looking at 33/40mhz upgrade cards for the se/30 and they’re so expensive now so i do think maybe its time to look at these ventures again, do you not think?

agree with you Jonny, apologies i was typing when you posted.

 

[Paralel]

You think so.  I think the problem Potato was looking at was because these network cards or adaptors have now become silly expensive like most of these mac cards, I’ve been looking at 33/40mhz upgrade cards for the se/30 and they’re so expensive now so i do think maybe its time to look at these ventures again, do you not think?

agree with you Jonny, apologies i was typing when you posted.

You may be right, it has finally reached that point. Hopefully it can be done better than it was because some of those original SCSI <-> Ethernet adapters were rather garbage.

Well, if engineering interests in this project don't materialize, I will lend myself to it. I can do at least a basic hardware design, but I would have to leave the software completely up to someone else.

 

[SE30_Neal]

I’ve never tried one to be honest so you probably know better but it does seem time to revisit some of these options, things like the commodore or spectrum have some amazing new add ons. It could be done too for these old macs, wifi cards etc

 

[Paralel]

I’ve never tried one to be honest so you probably know better but it does seem time to revisit some of these options, things like the commodore or spectrum have some amazing new add ons. It could be done too for these old macs, wifi cards etc

Ah, now that is a fun idea. make is SCSI <-> WiFi. Now that sounds more interesting to me.

 

[SE30_Neal]

Yes scsi wi-fi so they can work on modern networks would make things so much easier for novice nostalgia nerds like me 

 

[SE30_Neal]

You may be right, it has finally reached that point. Hopefully it can be done better than it was because some of those original SCSI <-> Ethernet adapters were rather garbage.

Well, if engineering interests in this project don't materialize, I will lend myself to it. I can do at least a basic hardware design, but I would have to leave the software completely up to someone else.

Nice one Paralel, ok so we need a programmer I’m sure that can do done

 

[Cory5412]

i dont think it works on the 6200 as it disables the seriel port when the comms slot is in place

It does, if there is a modem in the comm slot. I can't 100% vouch for the behavior if there is an Ethernet card in the slot.

However, you would just use the Printer port for localtalk and make sure you select that in the AppleTalk control panel on the 6200.

Without a little extra You won't get the SE/30 talking directly to the iMac, but you could either use the 6200 as a client to both, or the 6200 as a client to the iMac and the SE as a client to the 6200, or, if the 6200 is the bridge mainly, use it as the server to both.

It depends on what you "need" though. You won't [easily] get TCP/IP this way, just file services. That's a huge boon for compact macs, but I do know an SE/30 can be expanded enough to where TCP/IP (with OpenTransport, even) is reasonable on it. It's worth keeping your eyes out for an ethernet card. They do exist for that Mac.

SCSI ethernet is another extant option.

There are also IP to Localtalk bridges, I forget who it was but someone mentioned running one on an old Cisco router, there was a software one, so if you want to put some effort in, that might be worth it. It'll be a little faster than dial-up as well.

 

[TechEdison]

So TechEdison, my question for you is: what kind of speed did you see with the serial setup?

Fast enough to load the website I linked in less than 30 seconds... it’s 56k but can be up to the max that MacPPP supports. 

 

[SE30_Neal]

It does, if there is a modem in the comm slot. I can't 100% vouch for the behavior if there is an Ethernet card in the slot.

However, you would just use the Printer port for localtalk and make sure you select that in the AppleTalk control panel on the 6200.

Without a little extra You won't get the SE/30 talking directly to the iMac, but you could either use the 6200 as a client to both, or the 6200 as a client to the iMac and the SE as a client to the 6200, or, if the 6200 is the bridge mainly, use it as the server to both.

It depends on what you "need" though. You won't [easily] get TCP/IP this way, just file services. That's a huge boon for compact macs, but I do know an SE/30 can be expanded enough to where TCP/IP (with OpenTransport, even) is reasonable on it. It's worth keeping your eyes out for an ethernet card. They do exist for that Mac.

SCSI ethernet is another extant option.

There are also IP to Localtalk bridges, I forget who it was but someone mentioned running one on an old Cisco router, there was a software one, so if you want to put some effort in, that might be worth it. It'll be a little faster than dial-up as well.

Interesting thanks Cory, i’m luckier than most as i do have a shiva network card in my se/30 i just couldn’t get it working on my network, hopefully with the half duplex 10 base router i just brought and the twisted pair adapter and some configuration I should be able to get that working on tcp/ip with open transport which in theory means i’ll be able to to see both the imac and 6200. 

So it looks like i have a few options i hadn’t considered. Either way nothing is straight forward to setup so the external scsi option for novices sounds a great idea. 

56k sounds awesome! Some other guys on this thread would like that type of speed without having to find the rare network cards.

Neal

 

[SE30_Neal]

Fast enough to load the website I linked in less than 30 seconds... it’s 56k but can be up to the max that MacPPP supports. 

What is the max that macPPP supports?

 

[TechEdison]

Little over 200k I think. 

 

[SE30_Neal]

Happy Christmas everyone!!!  

thanks techedison

 

[PotatoFi]

I think the problem Potato was looking at was because these network cards or adaptors have now become silly expensive like most of these mac cards

Exactly. Sure, I can get a PDS ethernet card for just over $100, but I'm just not willing to spend that. I already had the Raspberry Pi Zero W laying around, so this modem-to-modem thing cost me less than $20. Being limited to 2400 baud was a disappointment that I didn't see coming though... I expected to be up in the kbps range. I think I'll check out the serial option that I check out next.

As for SCSI > Ethernet or SCSI > Wi-Fi adapters are concerned... I'm not sure which would be easier from an engineering standpoint, but Wi-Fi would be preferable to me. It's nice that my current setup works anywhere in the house.

 

[AwkwardPotato]

Is the 2400 baud max just a limitation of the Global Village modem, or is it an issue with the Pi Zero? I'd love to be able to do some BBS'ing with the authentic modem sounds on my Macs, but I don't think I can tolerate 2400 baud . 

 

[SE30_Neal]

I think you did great Potato! 

I believe the 2400 baud is the limitation of any serial connection on the old mac if ive read correctly but I’m no expert 

 

[SE30_Neal]

Is 2400 baud not ok for bulletin boards?

i noticed a shiva nic on eBay for £100 but not sure if it’s ok on the se

 

[PotatoFi]

Is the 2400 baud max just a limitation of the Global Village modem, or is it an issue with the Pi Zero? I'd love to be able to do some BBS'ing with the authentic modem sounds on my Macs, but I don't think I can tolerate 2400 baud . 

I'm pretty sure it's the Global Village modem, NOT the Pi Zero W. I can only connect to it at 2400 baud through MacPPP; it doesn't respond at any other speeds. Mine is a Global Village Teleport Bronze A861. I think there are Silver and Gold counterparts that are faster, like this one. Does anyone have a faster modem we can test?

I think you did great Potato! 

I believe the 2400 baud is the limitation of any serial connection on the old mac if ive read correctly but I’m no expert 

TechKnight can chime in here.

Is 2400 baud not ok for bulletin boards?

I haven't tried a BBS, but I have done some telnet with it and it is just fine! Watching Star Wars is painfully slow... but actual telnet stuff is certainly usable.

 

[SE30_Neal]

I'm pretty sure it's the Global Village modem, NOT the Pi Zero W. I can only connect to it at 2400 baud through MacPPP; it doesn't respond at any other speeds. Mine is a Global Village Teleport Bronze A861. I think there are Silver and Gold counterparts that are faster, like this one. Does anyone have a faster modem we can test?

TechKnight can chime in here.

I haven't tried a BBS, but I have done some telnet with it and it is just fine! Watching Star Wars is painfully slow... but actual telnet stuff is certainly usable.

That’s awesome though. When i get my room setup I’ll step up my efforts to get mine running as i have all the bits now, plus i really want to go on bulletin boards like you and have never tried telnet but heard of it.

I don’t have one of those I’m afraid, i brought a Hayes 56k one for about £15 or about $20 i an attempt to get mine online, i only used it twice as i really wanted my network card working and it was slow.  Does seem strange you’re limited to 2400 baud though, maybe its a software thing, ie an updated driver needed?