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"Cheap Networking" for System 6 and 7 Macs
- Thread starter PotatoFi
- Start date
Thanks, but ultimately, the Sega Dreamcast community is responsible for this one. I just put the pieces together.
Ok, more progress! I was pretty unsatisfied with the mess:
So I took apart the modem and integrated the line voltage inducer. This pulls 5v directly from USB. Pololu makes a 5v to 9v step-up converter that I'd like to integrate here that would make this more correct. Right now, this works with my Global Village modem, but it does not work with the modem on my iMac G3. Probably won't work with my Dreamcast.
It all fits nicely in the modem case:
And my desk is a bit neater:
Ok, more progress! I was pretty unsatisfied with the mess:
So I took apart the modem and integrated the line voltage inducer. This pulls 5v directly from USB. Pololu makes a 5v to 9v step-up converter that I'd like to integrate here that would make this more correct. Right now, this works with my Global Village modem, but it does not work with the modem on my iMac G3. Probably won't work with my Dreamcast.
It all fits nicely in the modem case:
And my desk is a bit neater:
Don't get me wrong, but I find it weird when I see people trying to open web pages on 68000 Macs with very slow connection. I mean what's the purpose?
I used PowerBook 170 with maxed RAM back in the mid 90s and "surfing" the Internet was no fun at all - apart from IRC, email, newsgroups, everything lagged. Only text based Internet makes sense.
If you want to see real magic - check this on any Mac that's capable of opening .PNG files,
1) go to http://pici.picidae.net/
2) write 68kmla.org in URL window and press enter
3) wait and open any topic you like (no loggin though)
I used PowerBook 170 with maxed RAM back in the mid 90s and "surfing" the Internet was no fun at all - apart from IRC, email, newsgroups, everything lagged. Only text based Internet makes sense.
If you want to see real magic - check this on any Mac that's capable of opening .PNG files,
1) go to http://pici.picidae.net/
2) write 68kmla.org in URL window and press enter
3) wait and open any topic you like (no loggin though)
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I often ask myself this too... Hahaha.
It's for the "because I can" factor. Why not? It's neat to have a 30 year old Plus on Google.
I'll have to check that link out! Sounds cool.
It's for the "because I can" factor. Why not? It's neat to have a 30 year old Plus on Google.
I'll have to check that link out! Sounds cool.
I still want my SE/30 online, why well simply because you can, some bulletin boards, emails, being able to download a few drivers and files directly to it but i know that isn’t that likely but nevertheless its worth a try. Main reason i want mine networked though is to easily transfer software downloaded from Macintosh Garden on my newer macs.
but like Jonny says just because lol
Neal
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Excellent site techedison, the end of Jan once my hobby room is setup I’ll join. I’ve only just moved house and until my wife’s desk arrives I’ve got nowhere for my collection of macs so they’re still in boxes :/
People, if you want slow network connections to connect your macs, then use AppleTalk. It was important in its day — reasonably affordable networking that didn't require a technician.
It's not especially expensive and not especially fast.
Get yourself a pre-B&W G3 PPC (e.g. a Beige G3) and use this as a bridge machine to the outside world.
While it's fun to see the solution, it seems to me that you are dairy scientists trying to improve on butter. It might work, but why?
What I would like to see is a SCSI-Ethernet adaptor. I know they already exist (Focus NuvoLink SC, for example), but if you can develop one (with driver) along the lines of BMOW's Wombat or SCSI2SD, then you will have something many of us would buy and that would solve your problem.
It's not especially expensive and not especially fast.
Get yourself a pre-B&W G3 PPC (e.g. a Beige G3) and use this as a bridge machine to the outside world.
While it's fun to see the solution, it seems to me that you are dairy scientists trying to improve on butter. It might work, but why?
What I would like to see is a SCSI-Ethernet adaptor. I know they already exist (Focus NuvoLink SC, for example), but if you can develop one (with driver) along the lines of BMOW's Wombat or SCSI2SD, then you will have something many of us would buy and that would solve your problem.
Exactly. It's for the challenge of doing it. As for the criticism: if there's no point to connecting one of these to the internet, then by the same logic, what is the point of owning one? Saying that they're useful for computing in the modern age is a stretch, so I don't think most of us do this because it has real-world value, we do it because it's fun.
Exactly!
Ooooh, thank you for posting this! After investigating the modem setup, here are the big downsides:
- Having to modify the modem with a line voltage inducer is a big problem. I think it's too much effort for the end result.
- It's slow. Like, real slow. An FTP transfer yielded 215 bytes per second. Perhaps there's a faster modem out there? Any thoughts?
Cool idea for sure, but I don't have the software engineering or electrical engineering chops to get that done. I did solder a capacitor into a modem, so that's cool I guess. The holy grail would be either a PDS card or SCSI card that is almost plug and play with System 6 and System 7. The problem is that there's no return on investment, there's like 5 of us that are interested in getting our compact macs online, and even in a classic Macintosh forum, people are asking "why bother". There's no business case for it, so it's highly unlikely that anyone will build it.
So that's why I'm playing with modems and probably serial cables next.
As for no business case, it has been reckoned previously that there may very well be a market for many hundreds of such devices. If each were sold at USD100, then this would be many tens of thousands of USD. As to whether this would be a sufficiently good business case is up to those willing to undertake the venture. Now, I am not an engineer and I have no idea how difficult an undertaking this would be. I mention USD100 because this is the approximate price point for the FloppyEmu, SCSI2SD and a PDS Ethernet card on eBay.Cool idea for sure, but I don't have the software engineering or electrical engineering chops to get that done. I did solder a capacitor into a modem, so that's cool I guess. The holy grail would be either a PDS card or SCSI card that is almost plug and play with System 6 and System 7. The problem is that there's no return on investment, there's like 5 of us that are interested in getting our compact macs online, and even in a classic Macintosh forum, people are asking "why bother". There's no business case for it, so it's highly unlikely that anyone will build it.
So that's why I'm playing with modems and probably serial cables next.
I mentioned 'why bother?' because AppleTalk is plug-and-play.
I couldn’t use AppleTalk between my SE/30 and my 6200 beige PowerPc as it wouldn’t allow AppleTalk to my SE/30 and the networking card For the PowerPc to access the net because of no handshaking.
anyway any cheap networking option is good, personally i think potatoes makeshift offering is a great go. That said can someone not just re-create a copy of an old network card and have a batch from china?
ps i have a shiva pds network card for my se/30 i could take pictures of it and its components, probably find a circuit diagram online though.
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Something else was gong on -- the 6200 has hardware handshaking. (being literally a 630 but with a PPC upgrade integrated onto the board) I'll pull mine out later and make 100% sure that it can do appletalk as well.
Sometimes if a 6200 has a modem in the comm slot port, you need to do appletalk on the printer prot (which is usually the default anyway) but the other thing is appletalk can usually only be active on one interface at a time, so if it had ethernet and appletalk and you were using the appletalk protocol, not TCP/IP to connect to a server, that would've been a bit of a damper. (Though, on new enough OS releases to have OT and "Modern" AppleShare, you can use AppleShare on both Appletalk and on IP, for example my beige G3 can talk to my PowerBook via serial and my G4 via Ethernet.
Sometimes if a 6200 has a modem in the comm slot port, you need to do appletalk on the printer prot (which is usually the default anyway) but the other thing is appletalk can usually only be active on one interface at a time, so if it had ethernet and appletalk and you were using the appletalk protocol, not TCP/IP to connect to a server, that would've been a bit of a damper. (Though, on new enough OS releases to have OT and "Modern" AppleShare, you can use AppleShare on both Appletalk and on IP, for example my beige G3 can talk to my PowerBook via serial and my G4 via Ethernet.
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Hi Cory,
i dont think it works on the 6200 as it disables the seriel port when the comms slot is in place but you might know better than me. Please let me know though as I’ve been unsuccessful so far down that route. Hopefully i maybe quite close to getting all 3 of my macs online via ethernet as i have a half duplex switch so if i can get the se/30 online, my 6200 and g3 imac can already so hopefully a small home network. Well thats the plan, unfortunately I’ve just moved house though so my collection are currently boxed up and will be for another 3-4 weeks. :/
For reference my se/30 is on 7.5.5, PowerPc 8.6 and the imac has both 9.2 & 10.3.9.
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You can ask Alaska, but I don't think the ROM/FPU card we worked on for the Classic II was a blockbuster hit. I could be wrong, as I disavowed any commercial interest to the project to Alaska, so I have never bothered to ask him.
Money has never been nor ever will be of interest to me with regard to these types of pursuits. (and no one think this is because I am wealthy, I guarantee I am among the poorest people any of you know)
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The fpu card wasn't a blockbuster hit because who really needs an fpu added to a classic ii? Ethernet is a whole nother matter...
I think an external scsi ethernet adapter would be the best solution. Something plug and play that's supported on most all old Macs. Easy to plug in, no need to take off any covers. That ways you can use it on compacts to the nubus box Macs, instead of a huge nubus card that won't fit in an SE/30...
I'd price it at $100-$150. Any more and you risk scaring people off. With a universal scsi adapter, you should have no issues selling them (again, instead of a special nubus card or whatever).
I think an external scsi ethernet adapter would be the best solution. Something plug and play that's supported on most all old Macs. Easy to plug in, no need to take off any covers. That ways you can use it on compacts to the nubus box Macs, instead of a huge nubus card that won't fit in an SE/30...
I'd price it at $100-$150. Any more and you risk scaring people off. With a universal scsi adapter, you should have no issues selling them (again, instead of a special nubus card or whatever).
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Heresy! Butter cannot be improved upon.
Everyone (vegans and dieters excepted) needs butter.
Anything else is but a mere spread.
I agree Jonny scsi appears the best all around option and probably one ofthe fastest too. Surely theres some expertise on here that could design a scsi board?
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