Mac Plus - SE/30 Floppy compatiblity

[BadGoldEagle]

Hi

I own 2 working macs at the moment: a 1Mb Plus running 6.0.3 or 6.0.4 and a 8Mb SE/30 running 7.5.3

I bought the /30 to create floppies for my Plus but now it's become my main 68k machine. I use it for everything, even for actual work

I got some disk images from Slomacuser. The 1984 "demo" disk and the system disk you need if you're trying to run the demo without an HD. (this is because the demo requires a certain version of Macromedia)

Anyway, the disk images work fine, I got them both working on the /30. I created some 800k disks with the images on them, they worked fine on the /30 as well.

BUT neither would work in the Plus, or mount...

System 6 said it needed repairs, so I went ahead and repaired the disks, but it crashed during the operation. The disks I used are good: They work perfectly fine in the /30's superdrive.

Yesterday I tried again as I thought the problem might come from the date the floppies were created: Both computers have no PRAM battery, so every time I start the /30, it thinks we're in 2040... and I've read on Apple's website that the original Mac can't use files created after 6:28:15 A.M. on February 6, 2040. (source: http://web.archive.org/web/19990423125824/http://www.apple.com/about/year2000/y2kos.html yes archives are REALLY useful)

But what about the Plus? That's what I thought, until I changed the date on the /30 and tried it again with no luck.

SOOOO, maybe I'm a complete n00b. But I don't understand why the Plus won't work with those disks!

oh, and I should mention that before I go: the Plus in question acted very weirdly since the day I got it: it came with its own 6.0.3 disquette. It works but not always. Same story with another disk I've bought since, an original system 5 or 4 (can't remember), it worked once and now won't work at all (but will mount on the /30) I tried to repair the disk with McTools but still the same.

I know that's a lot of information in one single message, but I began this "project" two months ago.

:beige:  If somebody could help me  :beige:

 

[BadGoldEagle]

By the way, it seems that some mac OS control panels don't accept dates after 2019. It will allow dates after 2019 but won't let you change it

http://web.archive.org/web/19990423125824/http://www.apple.com/about/year2000/y2kos.html

The current version of the Mac OS Date & Time control panel is Year 2000 compliant, but constrains user input to dates between January 1, 1920, and December 31, 2019. Well in advance of the year 2019, the Date & Time control panel will be revised to support future dates, using OS utilities that can handle time all the way to the year 29,940 A.D.

It certainly isn't the case with system 7 but maybe with earlier systems? But it seems that some programs can change the date http://web.archive.org/web/19990503043328/http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac/OSUtilities/OSUtilities-95.html

Now, I don't know if programs like those exist at the time being but if they don't it would be good to have them by 2019...

 

[slomacuser]

 I tried to run the "demo" on mine 4 MB RAM Plus with the HD20 EMU emulation and it works very well ...

 

[BadGoldEagle]

Hi slo

I know your images are not faulty. I'm afraid my Plus is.

I haven't tried to clean the drive before though

 

[Elfen]

The directory formats differ slightly between System 6 and System 7 (more so on System 7.5 than on 7.1). Even though you can format a 800K Disk on System 7, it will be slightly off and you will, at minimum, rebuild the desktop on those floppy disks with System 6  to get them working. It would be easier to format the disks on System 6 with the SE\30 or Mac Plus and then copy files to it from the SE\30.

But in this day and age, you should take apart both floppy drives to clean and re-lube them.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

I will try that today.

Unfortunately, I think I need a bootable system 6 floppy with disk copy 4.2, which I don't have. I'll have to create a new one.

I cleaned SE/30's floppy drive with a special cleaning diskette (I thought I killed it months ago with a ruined disk) but I haven't done that to the Plus.

I have a problem with my SE/30's hard disk, and I can't really use system 6 with it. It seems the previous owner (the original owner) used a password on the machine and never gave it to me?

Sometimes when I remove the hard disk I can't boot it at all, sometimes it boots but tells me this disk is protected and I can't access anything, it just sits there. Although I can see the desktop and the icons I can't do anything with them. Only time solves this problem. For example, I tried for 2 days, it still wouldn't work. One week later, it booted just fine. That's really strange

It happens also when I boot it with system 6 and rebuild the desktop afterwards. So system 6 is out with this machine.

I will be getting a Jaz drive soon I hope so I can save the contents of the hard drive before it's too late...

I got Disk Copy 4.2 from the Garden. I will try once more.

 

[Elfen]

I cleaned SE/30's floppy drive with a special cleaning diskette (I thought I killed it months ago with a ruined disk) but I haven't done that to the Plus.

You need to do a lot more than that! See:

https://wiki.68kmla.org/Floppy_Drive_Lubrication

Is there a System 6 on the Hard Drive? Just go through the System Folder and remove what password protection extensions/control panels along with any preference files and put them in the trash but do not empty the trash (yet).

Looks like the floppy drive does need help. See if lubricating it helps, and there are three switches in the front of the drive for Disk Insert Sense, Write Protect and SD/HD Sense. Spray some WD-40 into the switches. Then check the bottom of them at the solder side and desolder/resolder those joints as they do go bad over time.

If that does not work, it's time to look at the Bournes Filter. Ask Univserver about that. He tell you how that's done and could sell you what if you if you ask.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

As it turns out I won't be trying this out today...

Now I've got a working system 6 floppy. That's great. 

But the images from Slomacuser are for 800k disks but the .dsk is slightly bigger (I need 22k more...)

So I need a 1.44 Mb disk to transfer the images over to system 6. So I need a Superdrive and my current SE/30, because of its hard drive problem can't use system 6. I can't unplug the scsi cable from the hard disk either because it will then lock itself.

SO I need another Superdrive. Lucky me, I've got another SE/30 which I'm restoring. But now it's in various pieces. When I'm through with the retrobright job and the bezel problem, I'll resume my work.

About the SE/30's floppy drive: The floppy I used was really bad, so bad the black stuff from the surface came off, and ended up on the heads. 
I tried with 90% Alcohol and Q-tip but it didn't do a thing. Afterwards, I realised how much of a problem it would have been if I got the heads out of their alignment (I've learnt my lesson). I bought the cleaning floppy set from Japan and after just one try it worked as it did before.

About the Plus' floppy drive: I never cleaned it. I was thinking about using the same floppy set. But as you mention, it's maybe better to perform a full service to that one at least.

I will have a look at the system folder now. It is quite packed and there are a lot of things, some I've never heard of... I'll come up with a list of those, try to google them and if I don't find them anywhere I will ask you guys about them.