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ProFile power cycles when being accessed on Lisa 2


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My Lisa 2 is now working okay from floppies and recognizing both RAM cards. So, I'm trying to get it to work with a ProFile drive but ran into a weird issue.

 

The drive (with recapped PSU) powers up, goes through its self-test and gets to a steady ready light.

 

The Lisa boots okay to Lisa Office 3 install via FloppyEmu.

 

After clicking Install, the Lisa displays that it's searching for a hard drive. Then ProFile ready light goes out and the Lisa says something like "no drive found". After that, the ProFile ready light comes back on steady.

 

If done with the ProFile cover off, you can see the drive going through it's self-test sequence after Lisa Office fails to communicate with it.

 

Lisa diagnostics have a similar symptom. They report the drive is possibly turned off.

 

As part of the restoration, the motherboard was completely rebuilt and I/O board has a lot of rework. So, I'll start tracing down the connections from the parallel port through the motherboard and IO board. Since that'll take a while, have any of you experienced this symptom? Is there an area I should focus troubleshooting?

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Try Tom Stepleton's NeoWidEx to see the number of spared bad blocks, it's possible this profile is at the end of it's life. This utility is intended for Widgets but should allow you to probe the ProFile and see if the spare table is full. It might also be able to low level format it, not sure.

 

Also try BLU (download from here) - it can low level format the ProFile, but you might need a special EEPROM for the z8 microcontroller for that.

see: https://www.apple.asimov.net/documentation/hardware/storage/disks/profile/ProFile 5 MB Low Level Format Instructions.pdf and

https://www.apple.asimov.net/documentation/hardware/storage/disks/profile/ProFile 10 MB Low Level Format Instructions.pdf

 

I think the ROM can be downloaded from: https://macgui.com/downloads/?file_id=23998

and probably here: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/disk/profile/firmware/

likely this one: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/disk/profile/firmware/P10LLF_4.0_faa9b356819e4863b6415d43ce214975.BIN

for the 10MB one. Not sure which one in there is for the 5MB

 

I've attached some bins that I suspect are the the LLF for the 5MB ProFile that I've previously downloaded, but didn't keep track of from where.

Good luck.

profile5LLF.bin profile5RW.bin

Edited by sunder
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BLU and NeoWidEx had very similar symptoms to the normal UI stuff. 

 

I found broken traces for J13 pins 13 (DD7), 16 (BSY) ,18 (PARITY) and 25 (CHK/M3). Fixed them up, installed the boards back in and now I'm getting a short buzz and no power. So it seems I've shorted something out, but not sure what. Put it down for the night and will pick it back up tomorrow. The CPU board had a handful of bad edge connector pins. I originally repaired with copper tape, then a conductive pen, but neither repair was robust. It's possible something opened or shorted on that edge connector.

 

Anyone have advice for how to best repair edge connector pins?

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On 2/21/2021 at 4:39 AM, elemenoh said:

BLU and NeoWidEx had very similar symptoms to the normal UI stuff. 

 

I found broken traces for J13 pins 13 (DD7), 16 (BSY) ,18 (PARITY) and 25 (CHK/M3). Fixed them up, installed the boards back in and now I'm getting a short buzz and no power. So it seems I've shorted something out, but not sure what. Put it down for the night and will pick it back up tomorrow. The CPU board had a handful of bad edge connector pins. I originally repaired with copper tape, then a conductive pen, but neither repair was robust. It's possible something opened or shorted on that edge connector.

 

Anyone have advice for how to best repair edge connector pins?

 

Yes, indeed, that buzz/power off does indicate a short circuit somewhere.

Maybe check the pullup/down resistors on the motherboard, or those edge connectors close to ground pins or +5V shorting out with the ones next to them.

 

I've seen these, but haven't done these types of repairs myself. There's was a place you could buy two paints to redo the fingers via electrolisys. You'd apply one layer which I think was nickel or copper, the other was a gold one which was pretty expensive, and you'd paint them one on then the other. I think it was around $100 for a small bottle of the stuff. Found this: http://www.soldertools.net/products/Gold-Contact-Replating-Kit.html but either it's the same one or nearly 4x more - very pricey. Here's a video for it:

 

 

https://www.circuitrework.com/features/643.html has some details, but likely it's what you've already done.

 

Here's a cheaper way of doing it, but don't expect it to last:

 

 

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It turned out to be an issue with the CPU edge connector. After some wiggling and percussive maintenance, it booted okay. And with the motherboard bodges on J13, the ProFile now works!!

 

After four months of extensive restoration, it was so cool to be able to use the native Lisa Office things.

 

BTW, when I tried to copy apps like LisaDraw from the FloppyEmu mounted disks, I got errors like "This is the master copy of LisaDraw. It cannot be moved to a different disk".

 

Maybe a dumb question, but how are you supposed to install those apps? Am I perhaps running into Lisa copy protection here?

 

Thanks for all of the help @sunder!!

 

PQmlTRK.jpg

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Yes, you're running into the DRM. The way you install apps ("Tools") on the Lisa is you have to copy them.

 

To do that you'd insert a tool's floppy (LisaWrite spans two disks and this is a neat thing about LOS is that it understand multi-floppy volumes and handles them properly.)

After that you'd select all the icons on the disk by dragging around them, or by using the Edit Menu Select All.

Next you'd go to the File Menu and select Duplicate.

You'll see blinking shadow icons of the items you said to duplicate.

Drag these blinking shadow icons to the destination - the ProFile/Widget drive.

 

When you do this it will warn you that this is the first time this tool has been copied and that it will be serialized and from that point will only work with this Lisa.

(It will write your Lisa's serial number to the tool on the floppy.)

 

Once they're on the ProFile, you'll have copied the tool's stationary paper, or examples. When you double click on one of those, it will clone that into a new document stamped with the date.

You'd double click on the document, not the tool to open it. LOS is Document-centric, not application-centric.

 

see: https://lisafaq.sunder.net/lisafaq-sw-los_drm.html

and https://lisafaq.sunder.net/lisafaq-sw-los_copy.html

 

Note that the file system on the physical media is hidden from you, instead you're seeing the Desktop Manager's database.

It's possible on the desktop to have two files with identical file names but different content.

 

If you have some documents open and you shut down your Lisa, they'll open back up exactly where you left off after you power on again (though you'll have to click in the window to actually launch their processes.)

 

There's also no File Save - all changes are saved in near real time.

The Lisa was miles ahead of the Mac (and ofc Windows.)

 

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