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A Mac IIsi, An iMac, A SCSI2SD Card and Basilisk


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Please help.  I have some failing hard drives on my Mac IIsi's we are using to run our CNC machinery.  We found SCSI2SD adapter cards, and if I can get them to work, it will save us tens of thousands of dollars.  

 

I have read Simon Carr's "idiots guide" on this forum, and it did help some, but I am completely without knowledge and experience with hacking, and I am completely stuck.  I need a "For Dummies" version.

 

The biggest problem I have right now is I cannot get the IIsi to recognize the SD card as a supported hard drive.  I configured the card with the scsi2sd-util as indicated, but still no luck.  

 

I have been unable to make a floppy disk with the patched version of HD SC Setup 7.3.5.  I have made the patched version, I just have no idea how to get it out of the Basilisk emulator on my iMac and onto a floppy disk.  I have a USB floppy drive.

 

If anyone is able to help me get through this, step by step, the help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Here is some additional information on my hardware:  Mac IIsi, needs to be running OS 7.1, iMac running 10.8.6, SCSI2SD v5.1

 

SCSI2SD has been configured to believe it is a Quantum Fireball.

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For the SCSI 2 SD config did you set the vendor and model to the one in the SCSI2SD in a 68k Mac thread, including the spaces before/after? That’s required for the stock drive setup to recognize the scsi2sd. 

 

A really easy way to get the drive setup off the iMac is to use sheep shaver with local disk access enabled so you can copy to/from the computer. Make a 1.44 MB disk image, uncompressed, in disk utility, copy the drive setup, unmourned image, copy image to the local computer, write with favorite utility. If I remember I’ll try and upload one to the thread tonight to make it easier.

 

Another thing to check on your Iicis is the caps and batteries. Both are known to leak on these systems whether they’re in use or not.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Compgeke, All of our vintage Macs were re-capped a few years ago because of the leakage problem, and I checked the PRAM battery when I opened the IIsi's case.  I did configure the card as in the post by Simon Carr.  

 

I had some minor success after I received a bootable floppy with OS 6.0.8 and Lido on it.  I got OS 7.1 installed, but when I took the scsi2sd adapter boards out of the IIsi and attached it to the SCSI bus of a G4 we keep vintage software on, something happened to the card. It stopped showing up on any SCSI bus, and when I tried to re-format with Lido, I started getting arbitration errors.  A tech from the vendor couldn't figure out why that was happening, and has promised to exchange the board.

 

I am going to forgo using Basilisk, it's a bit more complicated than I had hoped it would be.  Using the 6.0.8 boot disk is infinitely simpler, and if I can get my replacement board to work, I will definitely NOT put it in the G4.  That's when everything went sideways!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I received the replacement board from Inertial, and I am still having the same problems.  It doesn't matter which IIsi I put it into, I get an Arbitration error from Lido, while the patched version of Disk Tools tells me it can't find a suitable SCSI drive.  The termination software is definitely turned on.  The message from Disk Tools makes me think that it knows the SD card is there, but for some reason does not think it's an Apple drive, even though I've programmed it the way Simon Carr said to do it.  I can go to David and Steve's blog at www.savagetaylor.com, but it's really heavy on the command line interface, and when it comes to that, I have absolutely no idea what I am doing.

 

Has anyone had success doing this?  Should I have Quirks mode turned on or off?   The only difference between the screen shot below and what I have done today is I set up my SD card to be 4 virtual hard drives at 2 GB apiece.  I've counted spaces, I've double and triple checked everything.  I am lost.

 

Screen Shot 2019-08-16 at 4.19.43 PM.png

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Let's begin with a simple case:

  • Tell us about the IIsi: Does it still contain a hard drive? Does it have external hard drives as well? If yes, what are their SCSI IDs?
  • Identify a SCSI ID not used so far.
  • Go get a new SD card, put it into the SCSI2SD
  • On the SCSI2SD
    • enable only one SCSI target
    • assign the SCSI ID identified above to the SCSI target
    • Start Sector = 0
    • check the "Auto" box
    • Sector size = 512
    • limit the size to 1GB
  • Boot the IIsi with the 6.0.8 boot floppy that contains Lido.
    • Does it see the 1GB hard drive?
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Hi Udo:

 

I managed to solve this today.  The IISi had no internal nor external hard drives.  The only SCSI ID in use was "7" which was the floppy drive.  The main thing that led me to success was finding out that I needed to have the scsi2sd board connected to the IIsi via SCSI and to my iMac via USB AT THE SAME TIME while I was configuring the card and setting up the "drives.".  Another thing, I made my first partition (virtual drive) really small...20 MB like an actual antique hard drive, and installed my operating system in it.  Third thing, my IIsi seems to absolutely need the molex power cable.  Things really settled down when I installed OS 6.0.8 FIRST, and then installed OS 7.1 over the top.  Now that I have done it once, I am sure I can do it again.  I have two more CNC machines that are suffering from decayed HD bumper syndrome.  Being able to successfully replace the old ProDrives is a God send.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/17/2019 at 3:21 PM, joshc said:

I would love to see your setup as it sounds like you are using your IIsi for real work? 

What exactly would you like to see?  This is a pic of my most recent success.  It's installed in a IIsi, and this particular SD card was 520MB.  I partitioned it into a 20 MB and a 400 MB, leaving some unpartitioned space, which was recommended.  I have now succeeded in replacing the old scsi hard drives with terminally sticky bumpers in two IIci units.  There are some very happy operators in our shop now that they are turning on their consoles and not getting a flashing floppy icon.

Installedscsi2sd.jpg

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@Iamanamma Unless it's private, it would be neat to see the whole setup you've got working - I just haven't seen many examples of anyone using old Macs for real work recently, obviously a lot of photos can be seen online but its rare to hear of a current scenario where a Mac this old is still a workhorse!

 

The SD card upgrade looks great, have you noticed any speed improvement?

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On 10/1/2019 at 11:56 AM, joshc said:

The SD card upgrade looks great, have you noticed any speed improvement?

The guys who operate the machines are singing the praises of the upgrades.  One of them stopped me to tell me how much faster it is and how he doesn't have to stand there waiting for it to do its thing anymore.  They are ecstatic with the speed boost.

 

I don't know if I can post pictures of the machinery, the owners tend to be very private.  It is pretty darn cool that this is working for us, and I would love to show it off.

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On 10/5/2019 at 2:04 AM, IIfx said:

!!! Is that PRAM battery a Maxell?

I don't think so.  I can't ever recall buying Maxell.  Are you sure they're orange?  From what I can see of the part number in the picture it looks like it's an older Omnicel battery.  

Edited by Iamanamma
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  • 2 months later...
  • 8 months later...
On 10/1/2019 at 11:56 AM, joshc said:

Unless it's private, it would be neat to see the whole setup you've got working - I just haven't seen many examples of anyone using old Macs for real work recently, obviously a lot of photos can be seen online but its rare to hear of a current scenario where a Mac this old is still a workhorse!

 

@joshcDid you see my posts of the machines and our setup?  It came up in a conversation I had under my "Corroded Chip" post.  I posted quite a few pictures.

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On 8/26/2020 at 8:34 AM, Iamanamma said:

@joshcDid you see my posts of the machines and our setup?  It came up in a conversation I had under my "Corroded Chip" post.  I posted quite a few pictures.

I did see them, thank you - very interesting to see a vintage Mac still in commercial use.

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17 hours ago, joshc said:

I did see them, thank you - very interesting to see a vintage Mac still in commercial use.

At my workplace, we are still running a multi million dollar mail order and retail store on HyperCard. Including customer database, invoicing, shipping (with barcode labels and a manifest file transfer with the post office), accounting (sales), payroll, time clock, and federal tax slip generation and filing. It also generates manifest and customs filing paperwork and flat files that are uploaded to the broker and to US Customs directly. 
 

All other functions have been moved to Linux servers running Runtime Revolution, which allows the use of HyperTalk and a web cgi interface. 
 

The HyperCard stacks started on IIsi machines in 1997 and now run under Classic OS 9 on Dual G5’s 2ghz. The machines have replaced hard drives with Server class drives running in RAID1.  
 

Our internal AppleShare IP server was replaced with a Linux server in 2009. 
 

The reason it still is on this old system is because it’s very hard to change over an entire business operation without interruption. And it continues to just work, so why change?  I have a spare stash of G5 Macs. 
 

Slowly over the years different programs have been rewritten to run on the Linux server instead. 
 

I would bet we are one of only a handful operating a business of this caliber using classic HyperCard. The post office, revenue service, and US CBP are all unaware the files they receive are generated from software made in the 90s. 

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8 hours ago, MrFahrenheit said:

At my workplace, we are still running a multi million dollar mail order and retail store on HyperCard. Including customer database, invoicing, shipping (with barcode labels and a manifest file transfer with the post office), accounting (sales), payroll, time clock, and federal tax slip generation and filing. It also generates manifest and customs filing paperwork and flat files that are uploaded to the broker and to US Customs directly. 
 

All other functions have been moved to Linux servers running Runtime Revolution, which allows the use of HyperTalk and a web cgi interface. 
 

The HyperCard stacks started on IIsi machines in 1997 and now run under Classic OS 9 on Dual G5’s 2ghz. The machines have replaced hard drives with Server class drives running in RAID1.  
 

Our internal AppleShare IP server was replaced with a Linux server in 2009. 
 

The reason it still is on this old system is because it’s very hard to change over an entire business operation without interruption. And it continues to just work, so why change?  I have a spare stash of G5 Macs. 
 

Slowly over the years different programs have been rewritten to run on the Linux server instead. 
 

I would bet we are one of only a handful operating a business of this caliber using classic HyperCard. The post office, revenue service, and US CBP are all unaware the files they receive are generated from software made in the 90s. 

This sounds like an episode of a podcast along the lines of '99% invisible'...

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11 hours ago, MrFahrenheit said:

The reason it still is on this old system is because it’s very hard to change over an entire business operation without interruption. And it continues to just work, so why change?  I have a spare stash of G5 Macs. 

Absolutely, but it is getting much more difficult to repair those old IIsi and IIci's.  The next generation seems to have little interest in learning what they have to do to keep everything running and backed up, and I am getting ready to retire.

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