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ProtoCache1 - IIsi/SE/30 PowerCache Adapter Prototype Development


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Hmm.  I wonder if there would be room to do some crazy idea like this:

 

Crazy would be to flip the NIC upside down and plug the PassThru connector onto a 3x40 array of headers, keep the rows arranged correctly and it should work out. Dunno if there's enough clearance though. My Digipers give me eyeballed readings ranging between 5mm and 7mm between the top of a MacCon's Passthru connector to the FDD cage. That's really marginal for piggybacking anything down in there.

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I thought of this before as well.

Problem will be that you won't be able to fit the IIsi pivot this way as it reaches all the way to the front panel and has to pass the CRT. Things are pretty tight even when the stack is perfectly lined up with the original PDS slot on the Logicboard.

If we move even 1mm more inwards with the top connector it will not be able to pass the CRT easily. It already needs a little bending when everything lines up.

It might fit if you bend everything a bit more but I do not like that.

 

The line buffers (I used 74HCT365 for now) and a second PT will only fit if we do it without the 90° hack on the MacCon (as long as we want to keep things nice regarding the routing - which I want to as messing around with troubleshooting traces that are buried in the inner layers is no fun)

 

As I need the cards in a way for the IIsi pivot to fit and also do not need the second PT right now I will do a run of my initial design at first.

If everything works I will give the version with direct plug in support for the MacCon+Line drivers+second PT a run (or pass the design files to someone who wants to put one together)

 

 

 

 

 

This will hardly fit. I would rather not go for it ;)

 

 

 

Will be too high for max sized cards.

 

 

EDIT

 

Like so:

 

post-46-0-69547200-1508489147_thumb.png

 

Routing has to be done again more or less but as I know the issues from the first approach this shouldn't take as much time as the first one.

 

 

Edited by Bolle
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Sweetness!  [:D]]'>  Glad to hear you're all over every angle.

 

I threw everything I had together with the kitchen sink for this last pre-viz Illustrator session.

 

post-902-0-61212500-1508531975_thumb.jpg

 

Pretty sure I've taken AI playtime past the point of being useful for practical purposes, just wanted to let the rest of the gang see how your long game might turn out. Accumulated errors of approximation based on scans, file exports and diagrams from DCaDftMF have turned file into GLOP! :lol:

 

The only thing I might take a stab at would be scaling in the zombie's scan of the actual GS cards the two of you've got so the rest of us can turn green with envy! GS display inboard and 8bit 16" resolution outboard will be to die for!

 

Speaking of which, does the GS Card stand straight up, clearing the CRT despite the inset induced by the inside out form factor adapter? Wire wrap connectors bolted up to the card with standoffs could set that aright. Clipping the longer pin protrusions after soldering is no biggie. Coming up with a correctly keyed RA connector might be a problem in either case, but as I said earlier, Gamba & Co. have been there and done that for us already.

 

Curious to see what bending the Pivot card means/how it complicates things?

 

 

Bolle_TrisSlot+Kitchen_Sink.PDF

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini
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Sad news everyone!

 

So I tried just the Pivot IIsi card alone, and was still receiving a black screen on both $A and $9.  Seeing as others have this card working with no issue, I started additional troubleshooting and found that apparently the Pivot IIsi has an incompatibility with the Mac ROM-inator II.  At least, on my system it does.  Anyone have that combination working?  Anyway, After swapping back in the original ROM, the Pivot works.  But that's where the fun ends.   [V]

 

NO combination of Pivot, Asante, PowerCache, and Adapter work.   :scrambled:

 

Three of the four work together without issue, as long as you can physically fit them together in their proper slots.  But once all four are in play, no bueno. 

I can Asante -> Adapter -> Pivot and all is well.  But once you add the PowerCache, the machine starts shrieking and buzzing something fierce!  The display actually comes on, but it is full of fuzz and flickers like mad.  Funny thing, behind all that mess you can barely make out that the machine is trying to boot.  I didn't leave it on very long for fear of the thing breaking out into fire-- it is NOT friendly sounding at all!

 

I tried all combinations of selectable addresses on the Asante and Pivot, with no difference.  I tried every order I could physically fit together with the same results.

 

Asante -> Adapter + PowerCache -> Pivot  :scrambled:

Asante -> Pivot -> Adapter + PowerCache  :scrambled:

Adapter + PowerCache -> Asante -> Pivot  :scrambled:

 

I couldn't try these combinations , because the orientation would jam cards into each other or into the logicboard:

 

Pivot -> Asante -> Adapter + PowerCache

Pivot -> Adapter + PowerCache -> Asante

Adapter + PowerCache -> Pivot -> Asante

 

I'm sad now.  Tomorrow I will try with a Micron card and I think I also have a Farallon network card I could try.

Edited by joethezombie
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Hey Joe,

Don't be sad, be strong. Always remember Edison. When discouraged Jobs used to "take a walk" (You know what that means.) Bill Gates would take a 2 week vacation. Maybe try another system: Gamba's 8.1 hack. It will work out. Peace.

TPope

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Did you measure the voltages? Display issues and strange noises sounds like low voltages.

Also did you use the original GAL or one of your clones?

 

The IIsi pivot seemed to have issues together with the IIsi ROM as well. I will have to test that again to verify.

 

As said Gamba had succes getting three cards to work together, so it may just be an incompatibility with either the PowerCache or the Pivot.

With the possibility to have three cards we will have to test what works together and what does not anyways.

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Copy that. I'm always thinking power requirements vs PDS power budget spec. the Radius Pivot cards in particular:

 

SE/30 Color Pivot form factor is a maximum card size spec - not intended for use with another card - uses close to the full PDS power budget?

Color Pivot II/IIsi form factor looks to be maximum card size? - design precludes using a third PDS card. It's likely never been tested with PowerCache, doesn't fit horizontally(?) in IIsi.IIRC I've looked into that possibility, will recheck.

 

Stuff ready to box up for mailing to you:

 

Macintosh II  PowerCache Adapter

Macintosh IIx PowerCache Adapter

 

adding:

 

CPII/IIsi with wrong angle adapter sitting in position awaiting solder (untested since connector-ectomy) fairly easily adapted (pin clip, pull, whatever) to external power?

 

can add:

 

SuperMac Spectrum 8: MaxSpec SE/30 card?

 

IIsi board from my stack, they ALL need caps. ::) IIRC you don't have one, any IIcx form factor PSU resistor limited to IIsi specs should work as a parallel testing setup? You could also limit power with more resistance for variable borderline case testing?

 

will add:

 

Anything else we can think of that you might want to try testing before I box it up.

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

I've still gotta do a Reader's Digest version of the PM thread, but here's a quick update:

 

After much hard work, Bolle has ordered a set of prototype boards for testing two different GAL implementations developed in joethezombie's tireless efforts! :D

 

MUCH appreciated, guys!

 

 

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini
clarification/typo abatement
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PCBs are nearly here. I have the testbed SE/30 set up already and all parts for assembling an adapter once the boards arrive are already on the bench.

The test candidates are ready to serve their duty:

 

IMG_3497.thumb.JPG.e4455d73577c0bf895197f0a69b90f8d.JPG

 

As always with those things, once I had a deal on a PowerCache a second one popped up and I could not resist even though the first one was already on the way.

 

The boards may already be here tomorrow and I should have an adapter put together by the end of the week ready to be tested in its basic configuration which technically resembles the Daystar IIsi adapter.

There will be the possibility to reconfigure it to work like the DiiMo adapters (the same as the Artmix card is based on) if I got everything right from the notes Joe took. The GAL equations for that one are not yet finished.

I plan to do some experiments that might not even need a GAL to work the way we want it (with a basic set of PDS cards - say bus master cards might not work that way)

 

Haven't been this keen for a shipment to show up at my doorstep for quite some time now :p Can't wait to see if this works out. It's going to be a game changer if it does.

 

 

*teaser*

yyRRXWZ.png

Edited by Bolle
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Not easily, as the Nubus adapter interferes with the SE/30s internal video at pseudoslot address $E.

This is basically a Daystar adapter with a form factor that nicely fits a SE/30. If things do not work in the Daystar adapter they won't work in here. Nubus won't work without further modification to the Nubus adapter.

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6 hours ago, Bolle said:

As always with those things, once I had a deal on a PowerCache a second one popped up and I could not resist even though the first one was already on the way.

 

Two is always better than one! Nice work, can't wait to see where this goes. Does the Turbo 040 have the 4.11 firmware?

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Hey Bolle,

 

Would it it be possible to tell me what modifications need to be made to the   IIsi PDS to NuBus adapter board to make it work on this board?  Has anyone written down all the improvements that must be made? Thanks for your time.

 

TPope

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There's nothing to be done yet. NuBus in SE/30 is an entirely different project. Bus Mastering and the way it is handled is a major difference between the IIsi and SE/30. The differences between them are listed in Apple's docs.

 

Bus mastering is a major, but not insurmountable issue (Xpanse card/cable/external NuBus expansion box setup exists) for NuBus in SE/30.

 

I need major assistance in tilting at that windmill. I'm as far over my head there as I was in here until the dynamic duo joined the fray. :ph34r:

 

 

edit: boards have landed on Bolle's workbench. default_icon_smile_big.gif

 

 

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini
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  • 4 months later...

I have a couple hundred of the AMP 5650874-5 in the attic.   When/if you get to that point, email me if you're interested.  Although, if Bolle is doing the assembly, it might not make much sense.  Shipping to Europe has gotten silly expensive.

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/5650874-5/A32307-ND/811097

 

Unfortunately, I do not have any of the straight variety:  535098-5

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/535098-5/A1289-ND/146336

 

Nor the right angle plugs, 650906-5

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/650906-5/A1277-ND/146300

 

The GAL16V8 I have on hand are GAL16V8D-15LJ     Might be too slow for your application.  Also, I think they're PLCC, which is less convenient than DIP.

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Wire wrap sockets would have extra long pins, right?    I don't have any of the wire wrap sockets.   

 

I have male, straight, and female right angle, which is exactly the opposite of what one wants.  I kept getting confused when I bid on the Ebay lots back when.

 

But the whole connector is confusing.   The connector on the logic board, the NuBus slot connector, is female, even though the housing appears male, because the **pins** are female.     The connector on NuBus cards, is Male, even though the housing appears female, again, because the pins are maie.

 

If you used female backwards to the above description, the I do have the 96 pin straight connector you want.   It just doesn't have the long pins of a wire wrap connector -- just the "-5" PCB pins.

 

I think Digi-Key still has the actual wire wrap part you need listed, though they're out of stock.  Unfortunately, the minimum order is 5100 units...  1-1393642-6-ND

 

http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=CVM_1-1393642-6&DocType=Customer+View+Model&DocLang=3D

Edited by trag
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  • 2 weeks later...

Yep, the pins protrude about 10mm from the bottom of a PCB for multiple wire wrap levels on the square pins. Some I'd use for actual wrapping, but mostly I see them as handy  interboard connections. First up would be the twin slot NuBus hack of the IIsi adapter. If that doesn't work out, I'm back to the original plan for using a pair of NuBus connectors as a stairway to the basement for installing a pair of PDS cards underneath the IIsi board with NuBus Adapter/Rocket above board.

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  • 9 months later...
On 12/6/2017 at 4:21 AM, Bolle said:

Not easily, as the Nubus adapter interferes with the SE/30s internal video at pseudoslot address $E.

What happens if you use a PDS video card, and disable the motherboard video?

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Sorry, missed your question, B. Video ROM pulled, Se/30 boots to desktop from RCPII/IIsi in the PDS. TattleTech/SlotInfo report nothing present in Slot $E. That's the configuration in which I'll be testing for function of an LC NIC wired up to the PDS passthru of a Pivot card in the SE/30  .  .  .  AFTER I've tested it successfully in a IIsi or at least haven't been driven from the bench by magic smoke billowing out of a spare IIsi board.

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