landoGriffin Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 42 minutes ago, cheesestraws said: You will get very heavily bottlenecked by the SCSI connection in this case. SCSI-1 is not fast, so do not expect too much... The Mac is also a significant bottleneck. With a SE/30, I'm happy to get 1MB/s The maximum theoretical limit on SCSI-1 is 5MB/s, which is much slower than a SD card at 10-12MB/s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pushpull76 Posted November 25, 2020 Report Share Posted November 25, 2020 On 11/24/2020 at 3:50 PM, cheesestraws said: You will get very heavily bottlenecked by the SCSI connection in this case. SCSI-1 is not fast, so do not expect too much... You are right. On another side, i'm more interested about using a real ssd, just because I had bad experiences with SD cards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pushpull76 Posted November 25, 2020 Report Share Posted November 25, 2020 On 11/24/2020 at 4:38 PM, landoGriffin said: The Mac is also a significant bottleneck. With a SE/30, I'm happy to get 1MB/s The maximum theoretical limit on SCSI-1 is 5MB/s, which is much slower than a SD card at 10-12MB/s. Planning to use it on more platforms but thanks for the hint! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
68kMLA Supporter cheesestraws Posted November 26, 2020 68kMLA Supporter Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 16 minutes ago, Pushpull76 said: You are right. On another side, i'm more interested about using a real ssd, just because I had bad experiences with SD cards. For reliability, you are likely right that it will be better; and I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work, so long as you're not expecting a speedup . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pushpull76 Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 12 minutes ago, cheesestraws said: For reliability, you are likely right that it will be better; and I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work, so long as you're not expecting a speedup . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uyjulian Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 You can also use an eMMC to microSD adapter for your Raspberry Pi. eMMC are more reliable than microSD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pushpull76 Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 11 hours ago, uyjulian said: You can also use an eMMC to microSD adapter for your Raspberry Pi. eMMC are more reliable than microSD Good advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
max1zzz Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 So my boards arrived a few days ago, unfortunately the bad news is they don't seem to work, both my powerbook 100 and 145B refuse to boot from it, the 74LS641's also seem to be getting pretty warm which doesn't seem right! I'm a bit lost as to what the issue is right now, I can't see and obvious errors in the board but since this is based on design we know works I must have made a error somewhere! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
max1zzz Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 OK..... I think I have found the issue and I'm a little embarrassed as to what it was, turns out it was a cold solder joint on one of the termination resistors..... I designed the board using 0603 resistors forgetting the reel or 110ohm resistors I had where 0805, turns out bodgeing 0805's onto 0603 pads isn't the best idea! My PB145B now boots from my Pi Zero powered RaSCSI just fine And the board (ignore that bodge wire - it is a leftover from debugging and is not needed) I need to add a anti backfeed diode to the +5v rail on the board to stop the Pi trying to power the PB if a external PSU is connected, but apart from that the board seems to work fine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
landoGriffin Posted December 16, 2020 Report Share Posted December 16, 2020 Congratulations!! That’s a nice looking board! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trash80toHP_Mini Posted December 16, 2020 Report Share Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) Sweet things going on there, max! On 11/25/2020 at 8:53 PM, uyjulian said: You can also use an eMMC to microSD adapter for your Raspberry Pi. eMMC are more reliable than microSD Could you use the eMMC built into an RPi Compute Module as mass storage for a Mac via RaSCSI? The new CM 4 is smaller than previous CM versions with a compact interboard connection setup in place of the big edgecard interface of previous CM versions. Seems a better aspect ratio than the Zero? They're more expensive, but the connector setup would snug it right up to the bottom if you made a 45x55mm RaSCSI board? Looks like the assembly could be significantly smaller than a 2.5" HDD bay? I guess without SD you'd need to do data transfers over wireless or USB. With CM 4 w/o eMMC on board you get SD though. Dunno, I'm just along for the ride on this kinda stuff, but thought to mention it. https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-4/?variant=raspberry-pi-cm4001000 Looks like you'd need to break the USB connector for the module out onto the RaSCSI board, but other than that, seems good to go? It's so cute it reminds me of a 1400 processor card. Edited December 16, 2020 by Trash80toHP_Mini Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uyjulian Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 11:32 PM, Trash80toHP_Mini said: Could you use the eMMC built into an RPi Compute Module as mass storage for a Mac via RaSCSI? Most likely. The eMMC would take up the place of the SD connection. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
landoGriffin Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 11:32 PM, Trash80toHP_Mini said: Could you use the eMMC built into an RPi Compute Module as mass storage for a Mac via RaSCSI? Definitely!! I pre-ordered my CM4 in November, but its still not here yet! The best estimate they will give me is "sometime in January, maybe". Once I have my CM, I wouldn't be surprised if a CM version of RaSCSI comes around Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trash80toHP_Mini Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Very nice, I'd imagine you ordered the carrier card as well for your experimentation? You beat me to its discovery and the notion of using it this application. Can't wait to see what you come up with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trash80toHP_Mini Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, uyjulian said: Most likely. The eMMC would take up the place of the SD connection. Yep, that's how it works, the inexpensive models come with SD literally in the place of EMMc so you could go with one of those to kep the price down. All you loose for such a compact solution is the USB3 implementation of Pi4. Zero remains a very inexpensive solution, but CM4 puts the card @landoGriffin mentioned just about anywhere inside a Mac or onto the tiniest of external solutions, which also puts its onboard WiFi antenna outside the RFI shielding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
max1zzz Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) I did think about making my board using a CM4 but the lack of stock anywhere made me go for the zero, It would be nice to have the added performance of the Pi 4 for the newer powerbooks. I would be a little concerned about the Pi4's reputation for running hot though, in the confines of a PB HDD bay this might cause a issue. There is only one way to know for sure though! Edited December 17, 2020 by max1zzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trash80toHP_Mini Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 I was also thinking about heat, but it's made for very high performance. Can it underccocked quite a bit and still exceed requirements by far? External case would be vertical for convection. There was a very nice little case like that in the day. Connection included a SCSI passthru. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uyjulian Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said: Yep, that's how it works, the inexpensive models come with SD literally in the place of EMMc so you could go with one of those to kep the price down. All you loose for such a compact solution is the USB3 implementation of Pi4. Zero remains a very inexpensive solution, but CM4 puts the card @landoGriffin mentioned just about anywhere inside a Mac or onto the tiniest of external solutions, which also puts its onboard WiFi antenna outside the RFI shielding. On Pi4, USB is implemented over PCIe. On CM4, the PCIe bus is exposed, allowing you to add USB or another interface. (PCIe<->PCI<->NuBus?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
68kMLA Supporter Michael_b Posted December 17, 2020 68kMLA Supporter Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Finally put mine together, seems to work very well with my Pi Zero W/SE/30. I used the Gimons baremetal fullspec build 1.50 and set up a 7.5.5 image using Basilisk II. Then I simply copied the 2GB image I made to the SD card file system, renamed it to .hds rather than .dsk, and changed the .ini config file... seems to work perfectly, and I can now easily boot Basilisk II from the image on the SD, add programs to it, then put the SD card back in the RasPi and boot my SE/30- no need to use floppies to get programs over anymore! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trash80toHP_Mini Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 6 hours ago, uyjulian said: On Pi4, USB is implemented over PCIe. Exactly, folks were getting at PCIe on RPi4 by de-soldering the USB3 Controller to get at PCIe 6 hours ago, uyjulian said: On CM4, the PCIe bus is exposed, allowing you to add USB or another interface. (PCIe<->PCI<->NuBus?) PCIe to PCI is a done deal with simple boards employing the ASM1083, which looks like the only active component on the cards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trash80toHP_Mini Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 10 hours ago, uyjulian said: On CM4, the PCIe bus is exposed, allowing you to add USB or another interface. (PCIe<-> PCIe to PCI is a lot less expensive than that. There are a couple on Amazon for under $20, both based on the ASM1083 and what looks like about 1/4 teaspoon of passive components strewn about. That should be easily enough implemented on a CM 4 carrier and out to some form of PCI in one step, but that's probably swerving a bit off the SCSI topic here. CM 4 is amazing in format and features, I can't wait to see what you folks cook up with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
68kMLA Supporter Michael_b Posted December 18, 2020 68kMLA Supporter Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 52 minutes ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said: PCIe to PCI is a lot less expensive than that. There are a couple on Amazon for under $20, both based on the ASM1083 and what looks like about 1/4 teaspoon of passive components strewn about. That should be easily enough implemented on a CM 4 carrier and out to some form of PCI in one step, but that's probably swerving a bit off the SCSI topic here. CM 4 is amazing in format and features, I can't wait to see what you folks cook up with it. I’ve heard bad things regarding the ASM1083. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
68kMLA Supporter cheesestraws Posted December 18, 2020 68kMLA Supporter Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said: PCIe to PCI is a lot less expensive than that. There are a couple on Amazon for under $20, both based on the ASM1083 and what looks like about 1/4 teaspoon of passive components strewn about. That should be easily enough implemented on a CM 4 carrier and out to some form of PCI in one step, but that's probably swerving a bit off the SCSI topic here. 8 hours ago, Michael_b said: I’ve heard bad things regarding the ASM1083. Can I suggest PCI-chat probably should go in another thread? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trash80toHP_Mini Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 Absolutely, that's why I said we were swerving a bit off the SCSI topic. Thanks for drawing a clear line in the sand. Discussion about using CM 4 as an alternative RaSCSI powerhouse was great, but even that should now wait until until @landoGriffin has a chance to experiment with using his CM4 in a future RaSCSI version when it arrives. A new topic about designing the vertical external case suggested for RaSCSI/CM4 that will be equally applicable to RaSCSI/Zero is also tangential, such would keep this right on the development track topic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
68kMLA Supporter PotatoFi Posted December 24, 2020 68kMLA Supporter Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 Hey everyone, I have been pretty busy and haven't been keeping up with RaSCSI development, but you might remember that I was interested in designing some cases. I have a small Etsy shop selling SCSI2SD brackets and ROM clips, and I think I'd like to expand the shop a bit. Any interest in a 3D-printed RaSCSI Zero case? Of course, I'll publish the design files for free, but sell printed cases. Here's an early look. I made it match the aesthetic of Apple's external hard drives and floppy drives. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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