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I've just got an SE/30 and need some help

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I've recently acquired a classic Mac SE/30 (and a SCSI CD drive which I can't get working at the moment).  I've put a new battery in it and fixed the floppy drive, and given it a clean.  The problem now is that I can't actually get any software on it.
Everything I have downloaded on my PC is either a .img, .bin, .image, .hqx, or .sit. and they won't run after I copy them to the Mac.
Nothing I've downloaded will install or uncompress without Stuffit or Disk Copy.  I can't get Stuffit on, as I need Stuffit to put it on.
I can't find any install program I can put on a floppy and just run on the Mac.  It's driving me mad.
I found a broken link to something called macdisk.exe which should make a mac disk with stuffit on to install.  After finding the archived version of the site I got that, then had to get an old Win 98 PC to run it on, which then failed to run it.
I tried installing StuffIt on my PC, but that gave me internal errors with all the .sit files.
I even have a modern-ish Mac with OS X (10.8.5), but after copying the file to the PC floppy, then transferring it to the other Mac (with file exchange) it wouldn't run.  It said something about it not having the software it was made with.  So I formatted the HD Floppy on the SE, then put it in the modern Mac, then it wouldn't copy the file to it (read only)!  Arghh!
I tried the CD drive, which had the cable plugged into the bottom port and nothing in the top.  It didn't work, so I found a SCSI terminator and put that in the top.  Nothing.  I swapped the ports, and still nothing.  I get a power light, and it ejects, but nothing happens when I put an audio disc in it.  I haven't put in a data disc, as I assumed something should happen with any disc.  It's an AppleCD 300e Plus with SCSI ID 3.  I was hoping to use that to transfer files to the Mac.

If anyone can help, it would be amazing, as I have this great classic Mac (June 1991 running System 7.1) and can't get anything on it.

 

Things I have available are: Win 7 PC, Win 98 PC, Mac OS X, Amiga 500 & 1200 (the 1200 has a Mac emulator on a separate partition, though I can't remember how to run it, but could try if that was going to help).  I also have a SCSI Zip Drive that I used on my Amiga, but haven't got any spare disks for that that I can Mac format, and I'm wary about using it in case I get the click of death, as it hasn't been switched on for about 20 years.  I have my Amiga SCSI CD drive, too, so that might be an option, though I'd rather leave that and use the Apple one if I can.

 

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The easiest way is to buy the floppyemu. Then you can use dsk disks. 

https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/

If you have a windows PC with a 1.44 MB flppy drive you can use HFSExplorer to produce disks that a SE/30 can read.

On this site you can find some links for disk production:

http://spt0010a.sport.uni-oldenburg.de/bycmac/index-Dateien/Page661.htm

 

Edited by dochilli

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Another way is to setup a A2SERVER with a raspberry pi and to connect it with a local talk bridge with the SE. Then you can use the disk of the A2SERVER to get file from a PC to an old mac.

I use this setup and it is very easy. Your SE can get to the internet without a network card!

 

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Don’t use a PC, won’t work. 

 

Using a Macintosh should work, that’s the way I have always done. 

 

The disk should be formatted in the SE first as you have said, then files should go from your modern Macintosh to the floppy. 

 

Never had any issue that way. 

 

Probably a way to change from read only to read/write, again never had any issue. 

 

 

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Thanks for the replies.

Floppyemu is nice, but very expensive.  I have some SD readers for other computers, but they were much cheaper.

HFSExplorer looks like it's read only, though there is another product that claims to write (HFS+)

I'll check the links on that other page and see if I can find anything.

I don't have a Pi, though it's an option if I don't get anything else to work and sounds like an excellent solution.

 

I've just re-formatted the disk in the SE (showed 1.3Mb I think) and put on the modern Mac.  It shows 1.4Mb free and is read only ("Format: Mac OS Standard").  I have the "StuffIt Classic 1.6 Install" application on the Modern Mac, but I can't copy it to the floppy.  When I format the disk on a PC and put it in the SE then use the File Exchange program, it ends up as "StuffIt Classic 1.6 Install.bin" with "10101 PC" in the icon and says it can't be opened as the program that created it cannot be found.  I'll see if I can get something for the modern Mac that can write to the SE disk.

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It sounds like you have already managed to get files between the SE-30 and modern computers, maybe with Ethernet or a USB floppy drive? Could you explain a little more how you are doing that?

 

In particular, .dsk files are raw floppy images. If you can write floppies, you can set up your machine by imaging the floppy directly with software like balena Etcher, instead of copying the data as files. Mini vMac uses .dsk images, so much of the software on the Gryphel website is already packaged that way.

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On your PC, give CiderPress a try:

 

https://a2ciderpress.com

 

I personally have not had to use it, but I heard others have had success making HFS floppies with it. I can get you a disk image with what would start the machine and a few tools. Do you have a working HD in the machine, or not?

 

MacOS 10.8.5 is too new, and will only allow read-only access of HFS floppies (as you saw).

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I am using a USB HD floppy drive to transfer files.

I've tried Etcher, and for some reason it won't see the floppy drive, though everything else sees it just fine.

Ciderpress looks like it doesn't actually write the disk images to a disk, it just creates the image files.  I can't see any way to get it to write to a disk, just a disk image.

 

The HD in the SE works.  I have a few things on it that came with it (System Software B1-7.1, PageMaker, Word, ClarrisWorks, Flight Simulator).

 

I'm going to try the Mini vMac emulator on the iMac and see if I can use that to write to the HFS disk for the SE.

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vMac won't recognize floppy drives; it only works with disk images, which doesn't exactly get you far.

 

Bare with me, I have always had other Macs to do this with, so I hope others will chime in here as well. I know for sure there is some utility that will create floppies on a PC just by writing straight out. Another option: look at this article. You can use Mini vMac to help you and then use 10.8 to write a floppy with the terminal:

 

https://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8208

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HFSExplorer can write mac floppies on a PC. I did that a lot of times in the beginning when I did not have an ethernet card in my SE/30. But the usage is a little bit difficult and files with more than 1.4 MB can not be used or you have to split them.

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MiniVmac will not write floppies. As far as I know Basilisk is able to read and write mac drives. Perhaps you can use your ZIp drive in this way.

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9 hours ago, LaPorta said:

vMac won't recognize floppy drives; it only works with disk images, which doesn't exactly get you far.

 

Bare with me, I have always had other Macs to do this with, so I hope others will chime in here as well. I know for sure there is some utility that will create floppies on a PC just by writing straight out. Another option: look at this article. You can use Mini vMac to help you and then use 10.8 to write a floppy with the terminal:

 

https://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8208

Thanks!  That looks like it's going to work.  I've written a disk using DD and I think I have StuffIt on the SE.  It didn't do anything when I ran it, but I haven't tried with a .sit file yet, so I'll have to make another floppy to put some on the SE.

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As you get into this more, you are likely going to run into certain issues. First, many people have compressed classic Mac stuff using much newer versions of Stuffit, which are incompatible with the older Stuffits that will run under System 7.1. It will give you errors in that case. One way around it is to unstuff what you need under OS X prior to transferring it. I realize this will limit what you can fit on the disk. If you have this or any other issues, just let me know.

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It will get easier to transfer files to the SE/30.  I started off having to use an intermediary Mac that was running OS X 10.4 to copy files over from my modern Mac to the SE/30 SCSI2HD card, then I used the GuruModem for a while to FTP download to it, then I finally set up an A2SERVER on a Raspberry Pi as dochilli mentioned above.  All my old Macs, modern Macs, and even IIgs can transfer files back and forth with it, so this is the ultimate way to go!

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Just my two cents: 

After having used PC Exchange, use resedit on the Mac in order to get around the „the application cannot be found“ error. You can edit the resource fork of the file in question and thereby apply the correct creator application name.

If you want to use the modern mac to write an USB floppy, install a copy of Mac OS X, that is no younger than 10.5.x in a Virtual Box VM. This gives you direct download access to the internet and write access to an 68k mac formated HFS floppy. Apple dropped write access to HFS floppies with OS X 10.6. The VM also allows you to unstuff with a newer stuffit version and probably restuff in an old version, too.

 

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I tried putting a .sit file on the disk, but it didn't work.  I'm probably not understanding how to do it with Mini vMac (I have the .sit on the iMac and can't get it into the emulator), so I been getting disk images, then copying the files in those to a floppy image in the emulator, then writing that image with the dd command after un-mounting the real floppy.  The whole process is very show and complicated, but I've managed to get Tetris, Glider, Dark Castle, Star Wars, Lode Runner, and MacGolf on so far, so I call that a success!

 

I might end up getting a Pi and go for that A2Server way.  It would be much better, as there are several things I just can't get on it at the moment.

That Virtual Box idea might be worth a try, too.

 

Thanks for the help everyone :-)

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Just one more question: What kind of hardware would I need on the SE side in order to make a local talk connection to the A2Server? Would like to test that, too.

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Virtual box works well once set up. I use that. All you would need is some form of Ethernet or LocalTalk to Ethernet adapter and place it on the same network as the machine running the virtual machine. It’s otherwise seamless: the server shows up in the SEs chooser. 

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8 hours ago, Bendix said:

Just one more question: What kind of hardware would I need on the SE side in order to make a local talk connection to the A2Server? Would like to test that, too.

You'd need a Mac with an ethernet interface running 7.5 to act as a bridge. I used an SE/30.

Edited by Stephen_Usher

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8 hours ago, Stephen_Usher said:

You'd need a Mac with an ethernet interface running 7.5 to act as a bridge.

Or just a LocalTalk bridge like the Asante adapters.

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You need a local talk bridge. That can be one of ASANTE (Asante talk or Asante print) or for example a SE/30 with an Ethernet adapter and the local talk bridge software.

Here you can get more information:

https://lowendmac.com/network/bridge.shtml

Sometimes you need an old ethenet hub with 10mbit. The old macs do not work with 100mbit.

Edited by dochilli

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8 hours ago, Stephen_Usher said:

You'd need a Mac with an ethernet interface running 7.5 to act as a bridge. I used an SE/30. 

Doesn't need to be 7.5, AFAIK anything 7.0+ will work, and the control panel is free.  I had it on an LC II running 7.1 until I migrated to Apple Internet Router.

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10 hours ago, dochilli said:

You need a local talk bridge. That can be one of ASANTE (Asante talk or Asante print) or for example a SE/30 with an Ethernet adapter and the local talk bridge software.

Here you can get more information:

https://lowendmac.com/network/bridge.shtml

Sometimes you need an old ethenet hub with 10mbit. The old macs do not work with 100mbit.

 

They will work with any switch, but only at 10Mbit. It merely depends upon how brain dead your network switch is. If it's a decent one then without being able to negotiate the connection it should default to 10Mbit, which is what the old 10BaseT hubs ran at.

I had my SE/30 connected to a gigabit switch with no issues.

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Thanks for the many answers! I found this with some pics of the hardware in it:

 

http://retroapplecomputing.com/lt-eth-bridge.php

 

I did not really understand, why the powerbook was needed as an intermediate node in this example.

 

I have two SE/30s, one with a working Asante Ethernet Card. So with the Asante local talk bridge and the local talk phone net adapter I should be able to connect my 2nd SE/30 to the net like Stephen_Usher mentioned?

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